Track Day Excessive Oil Temp for factory recommended 0w-20 persists

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Curious if "just block off the airflow with a piece of cardboard" is too ghetto of a solution to this problem.

Works for me


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[gen3v8]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I run 0w20 in the winter.
I've seen more than one thread about oil with an oil cooler and thermostat never getting up to temp. Also that one Savagegoose guy, he went to trouble to install a cooler, then his oil wouldn't heat up enough in winter so he removed it, and after he reinstalled it started leaking...
I believe most setups ensure there's always *some* flow through the cooler even with thermostat closed so the oil in there gets cycled around and heated up regularly.

With a separate thermostatic oil cooler my oil did not get to operating temp, unless in traffic jams. Covering the face of the cooler made it run normal temps for daily driving even in winter.

[RZNT4R]

If a nurburgring rental car is totally fine running 5W30 and no oil cooler, 5W30 should be fine for most people. 5W30 is in mine right now.

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I woulda thought 40- or 50-weight should be about ideal for track-only usage at 270F. 10w60 at (probably?) 250F temps? Seems kinda thicc...

For me, with 90%/10% street/track, and track sessions usually ~15 minutes, I run 5w30, might consider 5w40 next year (just ordered Redline 5w30 which will cover me for last couple of track events this year).

For sure you'll hit 270F, I get there around 3-4 laps in.

I've searched this a lot. Yeah, there are oiling issues but IMO not related to temperature so much as to pickup tube and design of the flow through the engine. And almost always, if there's a spun bearing, it's a 2013...


But as you say, even *with* an oil cooler, these failures happen. Again, IMO more related to tortuous and inefficient flow paths... Thicker oil with good HTHS will help a bit, but ultimately if the oil isn't reliably being delivered to the bearings, there's likely gonna be tears sooner or later

Different people have different needs. I think the decision on whether or not to run oil cooler really depends on how people use the car. Mine is 95% track vs 5% street. I log around 2 track days per month. In summer times, ambient temperature easily surpass 100F at local race tracks. It is expected the engine can fail even with an oil cooler. For racing, every part of the car is consumables, including the engine. What I mean is by making it runs more close to normal temperature, it reduced the chance of engine breakages from happening. Otherwise Toyota's factory 86 cup car won't have those coolers at all.

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

If a nurburgring rental car is totally fine running 5W30 and no oil cooler, 5W30 should be fine for most people. 5W30 is in mine right now.

Lapping around Nurburgring with 86 by pushing to the limit is around 8-9mins, which translate to 4-5 laps at Laguna Seca regarding the time duration. If APEX taxi let the car cool down after each lap (during tourist drive, the start and finish of the track is not connected so they have to go off the track), the oil temperature won't be surprisingly high. However, most trackday sessions in my local area are 20mins long (some times are 30mins. Some people also run 40mins sessions by sign up 2 run groups), if anyone wants to cool down the car like how APEX taxi operates their 86 car, he has to run a few cool down laps in the middle of the session. I prefer to install oil cooler to avoid this kind of nuances.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by zeroomega

Different people have different needs. I think the decision on whether or not to run oil cooler really depends on how people use the car. Mine is 95% track vs 5% street. I log around 2 track days per month. In summer times, ambient temperature easily surpass 100F at local race tracks. It is expected the engine can fail even with an oil cooler. For racing, every part of the car is consumables, including the engine. What I mean is by making it runs more close to normal temperature, it reduced the chance of engine breakages from happening. Otherwise Toyota's factory 86 cup car won't have those coolers at all.

I'll bet they're there to get the oil up to temp quicker. Not to actually cool it.

[stilesg57]

Full circle back to “oil cooler is really oil heater” again.

Let’s just all call it an oil thermal variance reducer and be done with it

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

I be they're there to get the oil up to temp quicker. Not to actually cool it.

https://racing.tgr-europe.com/wp-con...ions_EN_03.pdf
It explicitly says it is engine oil cooling system.

https://racing.tgr-europe.com/wp-con...ulation_01.pdf It suggests 2017 Toyota 86 CS-Cup car to use 5w50 oil.

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by zeroomega

Lapping around Nurburgring with 86 by pushing to the limit is around 8-9mins, which translate to 4-5 laps at Laguna Seca regarding the time duration. If APEX taxi let the car cool down after each lap (during tourist drive, the start and finish of the track is not connected so they have to go off the track), the oil temperature won't be surprisingly high. However, most trackday sessions in my local area are 20mins long (some times are 30mins. Some people also run 40mins sessions by sign up 2 run groups), if anyone wants to cool down the car like how APEX taxi operates their 86 car, he has to run a few cool down laps in the middle of the session. I prefer to install oil cooler to avoid this kind of nuances.

Laps should be bridge-to-gantry, so the car gets to cool down on the long straight before the track entry before going again up the hill to the gantry, but it's still a very punishing 8-9 minutes.

I didn't say it would be perfect for everyone, but someone with a light worry about oil for canyons and short track sessions should be well served by running a high quality synthetic 5W30 most of the time and quitting this oil cooler/warmer/thermostat/carboard guessing game

[trippinbillies40]

It's amazing to me that we're nine pages deep arguing about oil temps on a car that nobody owns yet, down to the granular level of what constitutes a rental car lap at the ring and how that will affect everyone's perception about requirements for oil cooling on an FA20 lol.

You kids are a hoot.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by zeroomega

Different people have different needs. I think the decision on whether or not to run oil cooler really depends on how people use the car. Mine is 95% track vs 5% street. I log around 2 track days per month. In summer times, ambient temperature easily surpass 100F at local race tracks. It is expected the engine can fail even with an oil cooler. For racing, every part of the car is consumables, including the engine. What I mean is by making it runs more close to normal temperature, it reduced the chance of engine breakages from happening. Otherwise Toyota's factory 86 cup car won't have those coolers at all.

Pretty much this. Given using the correct oil and changing it frequently along with keeping heat under control and no downshift over revs there is no reason that these motors will be any less reliable on the track than on the street.

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

... on an FA20 lol.

You kids are a hoot.

Yeah, you're right. No information at all can be derived from any previous vehicle, especially not a nearly identical car with a nearly identical engine with a nearly identical cooling system and a very similar performance profile. It always starts at the ground floor and even the engineers are just guessing because nothing could possibly be known, right?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Have you tried though?
I didn't notice much change in how quickly the oil warms up at ~0ºC temperatures after installing an oil cooler with a thermostat (Jackson Racing Dual Oil Cooler / Radiator).
Have you tried using thinner oils for winter? 0w-20 or 0w-30?

The JR Dual Cooler is very different design from a separate oil cooler. It was designed to help get the oil up to temp quickly while also not letting it overheat.

So it's not a 1 to 1 comparison.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The JR Dual Cooler is very different design from a separate oil cooler. It was designed to help get the oil up to temp quickly while also not letting it overheat.

So it's a good fit for people concerned about "I live in cold climate and don't want cold oil"?