Counterfeit Toyota Parts

[FR-S2GT86]

There was a recent discussion here on another thread about one of our members having a problem with his O2 sensor and someone stated that he should buy a cheap replacement from RockAuto and I mentioned not to go the cheap route, but to buy the part from a local dealer due to the possibilities of counterfeit parts.

I stumbled upon this video today which proves the point I was trying to make.

[strat61caster]

I had an accessory belt I bought online shred on the test drive after installing it, lasted less then 10 minutes. May have messed something up, may not, swapped back to the original I had tossed in the back seat, paid the extra $15 and bought another one from a dealership, over a year later no issues.


Fun fact, local Subaru dealership wouldn't sell me a belt without a VIN.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Fun fact, local Subaru dealership wouldn't sell me a belt without a VIN.

Yeah, I get the impression that's the way things are going. Even when buying an oil filter for mum's Yaris I'm asked for the VIN at the non-genuine aftermarket parts shop.

[Swift]

same thing with "honda" timing belt kits on Ebay....seen first hand a belt snap after like..very low miles. Heard NSX guys were snapping belts. Stay away!


Same goes for "RDX" injectors etc.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Fun fact, local Subaru dealership wouldn't sell me a belt without a VIN.

Isn't that pretty much easy to come by though? I mean, walk through the dealership and give them their own VIN from a car in the lot.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Isn't that pretty much easy to come by though? I mean, walk through the dealership and give them their own VIN from a car in the lot.

You presume they had a BRZ on the lot...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You presume they had a BRZ on the lot...

Well true, but it's not like you can't come up with one, I guess that was my point. Heck you can basically look it up online and get pretty much all but the last 5 digits.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Yeah, I get the impression that's the way things are going. Even when buying an oil filter for mum's Yaris I'm asked for the VIN at the non-genuine aftermarket parts shop.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Well true, but it's not like you can't come up with one, I guess that was my point. Heck you can basically look it up online and get pretty much all but the last 5 digits.

I had a conversation with the parts guy at my dealer on this very topic not long ago.
There are two main reasons they ask for VINs now.
The first makes sense for a lot of models even if it doesn't for the Twins. There can be many variations on the same car so by entering the VIN they can get the right part the first time.
The second is related to the first in that it is a huge time saver for them. If you just go in and say year, make and model they now have to play 20 questions to dial down the options to the right part. This isn't a big deal with the Twins since there is not a pile of different versions. Nor would it be an issue with most Forum people since they could answer all the questions quickly and accurately. It would be a problem for many people when they get through the make model and year and then the only thing they know is what colour it is.
So ultimately they are not asking for VINS for a confirmation that you own the car or some weird conspiracy theory that they are tracking your purchases but simply because most people are automotivly challenged and they don't want to spend half an hour trying to get the right part number for a belt.

[Tcoat]

At work we run into counterfeit parts at least a couple of times a year. We receive all the rotors that are replaced under warranty for evaluation. Since we make them for pickups we see a couple of pairs of ours a year. These are almost damaged by extreme overheating (loaded truck pulling a trailer down a steep hill is almost always included in the failure description) and we may see one set every couple of years with a legit manufacturing issue. Since we end of line gauge and inspect every single part that goes out the door this limited warranty work is what would be expected.

We also see three or four sets of cheap knock offs come in every year. The difference is immediately visible even though some try to copy the OEM ones right down to the pattern of the date code. The problems with them are far more numerus with noise, cracking and even complete separation of the hat and brake plates being rater common. These products are just cheap offshore ones that people put on themselves and when they fail they take it into the dealer and complain!

Those cheap parts that show up are cheap for a reason but some people will never learn that lesson.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

At work we run into counterfeit parts at least a couple of times a year. We receive all the rotors that are replaced under warranty for evaluation. Since we make them for pickups we see a couple of pairs of ours a year. These are almost damaged by extreme overheating (loaded truck pulling a trailer down a steep hill is almost always included in the failure description) and we may see one set every couple of years with a legit manufacturing issue. Since we end of line gauge and inspect every single part that goes out the door this limited warranty work is what would be expected.

We also see three or four sets of cheap knock offs come in every year. The difference is immediately visible even though some try to copy the OEM ones right down to the pattern of the date code. The problems with them are far more numerus with noise, cracking and even complete separation of the hat and brake plates being rater common. These products are just cheap offshore ones that people put on themselves and when they fail they take it into the dealer and complain!

Those cheap parts that show up are cheap for a reason but some people will never learn that lesson.

Yeah, I just ordered OEM front rotors for my Solara from my local Toyota dealer for $100 each and the gal at the parts counter affirmed there are counterfeit brake parts out there.

I've been dealing with brake issues for years on this car and I believe it's because the mechanics that I have hired in the past have been using any old aftermarket rotor off the shelf that they just happen to have available at the time. These aftermarket rotors simply are not made to Toyota standards using high-quality alloys. They do not hold up over time and warp when they get hot causing steering wheel shimmy and the related wear and tear that it brings.

If I were to order the OEM rotors from one of the online chain retailers at half the price, I would be more likely to receive counterfeit parts. It's just not worth it to me to have to put up with the problems that this would cause.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Yeah, I just ordered OEM front rotors for my Solara from my local Toyota dealer for $100 each and the gal at the parts counter affirmed there are counterfeit brake parts out there.

I've been dealing with brake issues for years on this car and I believe it's because the mechanics that I have hired in the past have been using any old aftermarket rotor off the shelf that they just happen to have available at the time. These aftermarket rotors simply are not made to Toyota standards using high-quality alloys. They do not hold up over time and warp when they get hot causing steering wheel shimmy and the related wear and tear that it brings.

If I were to order the OEM rotors from one of the online chain retailers at half the price, I would be more likely to receive counterfeit parts. It's just not worth it to me to have to put up with the problems that this would cause.

A lot of times it is not really the material that is the issue, when it comes to things like manufacturing material is usually the cheap part. It usually comes down to processing and post processing treatment. Those things take time, and when you are trying to make a buck it is usually easier and more effective to reduce the time needed to make a part. With shitty manufacturers this means cutting corners in places that you shouldn't be. A lot of times 3rd party manufacturers will contract parts to be made but don't even get all the proper treatments called out so they don't get done. Seen that a time or two.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Yeah, I just ordered OEM front rotors for my Solara from my local Toyota dealer for $100 each and the gal at the parts counter affirmed there are counterfeit brake parts out there.

I've been dealing with brake issues for years on this car and I believe it's because the mechanics that I have hired in the past have been using any old aftermarket rotor off the shelf that they just happen to have available at the time. These aftermarket rotors simply are not made to Toyota standards using high-quality alloys. They do not hold up over time and warp when they get hot causing steering wheel shimmy and the related wear and tear that it brings.

If I were to order the OEM rotors from one of the online chain retailers at half the price, I would be more likely to receive counterfeit parts. It's just not worth it to me to have to put up with the problems that this would cause.

This is where it gets tricky! We also make aftermarket parts. They are exactly the same as the OEM parts with a different number on them. There is really no way to tell except when the parts are really cheap. You can however pay full price for the garbage parts and never know it until they fail.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

A lot of times it is not really the material that is the issue, when it comes to things like manufacturing material is usually the cheap part. It usually comes down to processing and post processing treatment. Those things take time, and when you are trying to make a buck it is usually easier and more effective to reduce the time needed to make a part. With shitty manufacturers this means cutting corners in places that you shouldn't be. A lot of times 3rd party manufacturers will contract parts to be made but don't even get all the proper treatments called out so they don't get done. Seen that a time or two.

This ^
Parts are made to a sepc. If those specs are ignored then the product is usually crap. We can make you a $30 part or we can make the same thing for $5 just by ignoring the specs. This goes down all the way through the supply chain right to the raw materials and if at any stage the specs are ignored then the end product will suffer even if it it made the same further up the line.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Parts are made to a sepc. If those specs are ignored then the product is usually crap. We can make you a $30 part or we can make the same thing for $5 just by ignoring the specs. This goes down all the way through the supply chain right to the raw materials and if at any stage the specs are ignored then the end product will suffer even if it it made the same further up the line.

In one of my previous jobs (manufacturing electronics) I learned of bin-sorting - parts are manufactured with wide tolerances (hence cheaply), then QC checks them. If it fits the spec, it's sold as brand name stuff or moved along down the supply chain as applicable. If it's out of spec it gets rebranded and still gets sold (typically for cheap, but not always).

This leads to interesting statistical variations where brand name parts are universally good and off-brands are universally bad (as the good stuff was skimmed off and sold brand name). So if you ever wonder what's the tangible benefit of buying the better, more expensive stuff (or higher end models in a lineup), this is a fairly common industry practice.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

In one of my previous jobs (manufacturing electronics) I learned of bin-sorting - parts are manufactured with wide tolerances (hence cheaply), then QC checks them. If it fits the spec, it's sold as brand name stuff or moved along down the supply chain as applicable. If it's out of spec it gets rebranded and still gets sold (typically for cheap, but not always).

This leads to interesting statistical variations where brand name parts are universally good and off-brands are universally bad (as the good stuff was skimmed off and sold brand name). So if you ever wonder what's the tangible benefit of buying the better, more expensive stuff (or higher end models in a lineup), this is a fairly common industry practice.

How does this explain Beats headphones?