Case study comparing the Ace header against a popular UEL header with FI

[DBW]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, there's only two UELs sold on the CSG website. This is one of the two.

Is the Ace necessary? Only if you want maximum efficiency.

Lets clarify. It's actually 35whp more, with 3 psi less boost observed. C30hbp/Ace vs C38hbp/UEL.

Or, the C30 on std pulley makes ~10whp more, with 5.5psi less boost observed on C30 sbp/Ace vs C38 hbp/UEL.

That's pretty damn substantial!

In the end, the conclusion is always the same: The Ace delivers the best results at the highest price. Some folks don't want to spend that price, or prefer the UEL sound. To each their own!

If you are seeing such a dramatic boost drop there is more going on then just a header swap. To see that much drop likely there are large changes in cam timing and overlap in the tune itself. An apples to apple test would be same ecu calibration, same fuel, same day. Or post the data of the two headers dyno runs.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by DBW

If you are seeing such a dramatic boost drop there is more going on then just a header swap. To see that much drop likely there are large changes in cam timing and overlap in the tune itself. An apples to apple test would be same ecu calibration, same fuel, same day. Or post the data of the two headers dyno runs.

he is using a smaller blower in scenario 1, and smaller blower with smaller pulley in scenario 2 to generate less boost... The point is pretty simple and clear, typically more boost equals more power, but with a change in header design they where able to generate more power with the ACE at a lower boost amount then another header made with more boost. That is pretty clear substantial data. Sure it would be nice to have 100% same setup before and after with ACE vs another header being the only variable, but based on this data the result would most likely end up being an even greater difference then was illustrated in this comparison as you would just be giving the ACE side even more power.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by mrg666

If the two engines with two different boost levels are giving the same torque, the one with higher boost is wasting part of that energy. And the wasted energy is wear/strain on the engine components. So out of two engines with equal boost, the engine with higher torque will not necessarily have higher wear/strain. Actually, a better flowing more efficient exhaust reduces the pressure level in the cylinder while increasing the torque which decreases the failure risk. It is more complicated than just looking at the area under the curve.

The greatest strain (ignoring RPM) is the power stroke. Mass flow rate is the key. Better headers sap less power to expel exhaust, which results in better cylinder filling, less psi, more mass flow rate, and consequently more torque.

Comparing psi changes is more useful for comparing changes to the pulley. When used that way, the psi change is a more true indicator of mass flow rate change.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DBW

If you are seeing such a dramatic boost drop there is more going on then just a header swap. To see that much drop likely there are large changes in cam timing and overlap in the tune itself. An apples to apple test would be same ecu calibration, same fuel, same day. Or post the data of the two headers dyno runs.

Except a tune optimized for the Ace would not work well for the UEL, and the tune optimized for the UEL would not work for the Ace.

But you should already know that.

Also, The Ace is on a smaller unit than the UEL, C30 vs C38.

[EAGLE5]

Any EGT info on these dyno runs?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Overlaid (combined) graphs w/ identifiers for comparison.




Conclusions: Smaller supercharger (C30) with less boost (~2psi less), makes more power (+35whp, +25wtq), due to the Ace header. The C30 + standard pulley + Ace header makes more power and more area under the curve than the C38 + high boost pulley + UEL header!

Imagine a C38 + HBP + Ace header...

Those sentences seem linked, but the first sentence is HBP vs HBP, and second sentence is standard pulley vs HBP like you discussed below in the other quote.

For that first sentence, the peak horsepower difference is seen at redline or close to redline; sub 6k or 6.5k, that difference is smaller, right? Maybe not a 10hp average, but less than 20hp difference average. It would be nice to know what the average difference is across the rpms instead of just a peak hp difference.

For the second sentence, the curves are virtually identical with the UEL HBP making slightly more power down low and then the curves cross at 5.5k rpms. The real difference seems to be past 7k where there is a 10hp difference in peak power. That difference would likely not get felt or seen except on the track.

It would be nice to see a C38 with a “HBP”. Maybe there would be no difference on the same pulley at such low, relative boost. Seems like most of the gains would be seen at higher boost than the HBP levels, where the C30 is working hard and heat/efficiency is an issue.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, there's only two UELs sold on the CSG website. This is one of the two.

Is the Ace necessary? Only if you want maximum efficiency.

Lets clarify. It's actually 35whp more, with 3 psi less boost observed. C30hbp/Ace vs C38hbp/UEL.

Or, the C30 on std pulley makes ~10whp more, with 5.5psi less boost observed on C30 sbp/Ace vs C38 hbp/UEL.

That's pretty damn substantial!

In the end, the conclusion is always the same: The Ace delivers the best results at the highest price. Some folks don't want to spend that price, or prefer the UEL sound. To each their own!

So this UEL header could be the JDL UEL header with a high flow cat? Why not say which one it is? Because if it is the one with a high flow cat then the 10hp difference up top might disappear without a cat, or be explained because of the cat, and the difference in power for HBP vs HBP could dwindle from an average of 15-20hp to 10hp. In which case, the price might be fine or might be too much. It is good to know before someone buys.

[CSG Mike]

All headers involved are catless. Curves wouldnt be anywhere near close to this with a cat in the header.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

All headers involved are catless. Curves wouldnt be anywhere near close to this with a cat in the header.

So I see a JDL UEL catted, a JDL UEL uncatted, Tomei UEL and MXP UEL. Which one was this?