Winter Tire Rotation Question

[8inchAzN]

So 2 of my Blizzak WS80's are just above the multi layer compound indicator where as the other 2 are at 80%. They have been used for just over 1 season.

My question is which which 2 should be at the front? The logic for putting the worn ones at the front is so that the 4 tires would wear more evenly. The counter logic is that you want the better tires at the front to help you maintain traction in emergencies.

Thanks.

Edit, alternative solution would be to buy 2 new tires and put them on the back.

[DarkPira7e]

I rotate my worn winter tires with new ones. Best tread goes on the front, bad tread goes in the garbage. I've never bothered trying to rotate winter tires, I'd rather replace 2 every couple years than have 4 evenly worn 50% tires half way through the season when a storm hits.

Just my $.02, but I'd rather be able to steer than accelerate swiftly.

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by 8inchAzN

So 2 of my Blizzak WS80's are just above the multi layer compound indicator where as the other 2 are at 80%. They have been used for just over 1 season.

My question is which which 2 should be at the front? The logic for putting the worn ones at the front is so that the 4 tires would wear more evenly. The counter logic is that you want the better tires at the front to help you maintain traction in emergencies.

Thanks.

Edit, alternative solution would be to buy 2 new tires and put them on the back.

I agree with @DarkPira7e Get 2 more tires. It sounds like your tires are at 3/32s tread or so; I'd totally want more tread in the winter.

[ZDan]

damn you guys hate money more than I do...

I'd just put the more worn tires on the front and watch them. And of course drive slowly and carefully on snow/ice...

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by ZDan

damn you guys hate money more than I do...

I'd just put the more worn tires on the front and watch them. And of course drive slowly and carefully on snow/ice...

I just figure that ~ $250 for two new tires every two years is a lot cheaper than a $500 or $1000 deductible because I was too cheap to have good tread.

[churchx]

Imho best possible way is to preemptive rotation of tires, so that wear stays somewhat even for all four, so that one can change them all at a same time. Of course too late for this, but worth keeping in mind for next new tires set of all fours.
In this case i'd probably put new ones in rear for two reasons. One, to have less traction issues, and other, for new ones being in rear to wear sooner/closer to front 80% ones. It's not that front grip is not important, as i'd dislike understeer even more then lack of power-traction in rear and on grippier pavement fronts do more of braking, but 80% left is not that much of difference from new and for sake of mentioned evening out of wear.

[RayRay88]

The ws80's wear like absolute shit. One season here and I wouldn't want to push them for another one.
The worst part about these tire is the absence of any composure, they lack any sidewall strength and fold over at the slightest hint of load. They make the ride bouncy and handling is questionable at best. If I try to go WOT the car will literally squat/squirrel and try to hop in to the next lane.

Only saving grace is it made me appreciate the cars chassis that much more.

I'm definitely going to try more "sporty" winter tires next season (basically anything but the WS80's)
Oh the snow/slush/ice grip is fantastic...

[8inchAzN]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

I agree with @DarkPira7e Get 2 more tires. It sounds like your tires are at 3/32s tread or so; I'd totally want more tread in the winter.

I think they are at 7/32s as the first indicator is for the top 55%. See below.

The Blizzak WS-tires' Multicell tread compound comprises the top 55 percent of the tires' tread depth with a standard winter tread compound comprising the remaining 45 percent. When Blizzaks are approximately 50 percent worn, their "snow platform" tread depth indicators "connect" selected shoulder tread blocks to indicate that the Multicell tread compound is almost worn out, and that the enhanced snow and ice performance is about to end.

[ZDan]

[edit]What he said! ^^^

Originally Posted by Leonardo

It sounds like your tires are at 3/32s tread or so;

More like 7/32...
The one pair is barely above the indicators that show when you are about to run out of the magic multicell compound that gives enhanced ice/snow grip. Those indicators are at around 6/32 (50% of 12/32 tread depth). So the more worn pair are at ~7/32 tread depth vs. the other two at 80% at around 9-10/32.
You actually run out of the multicell compound at around 45% tread depth, or about 5/32. Then you're reduced to driving on a "normal" winter tire tread compound.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

I'm definitely going to try more "sporty" winter tires next season (basically anything but the WS80's)
Oh the snow/slush/ice grip is fantastic...

Opposite end of the spectrum: I'm on Pirelli Sottozero 3. They are practically indistinguishable from a *good* Max Perf Summer tire in 90th %ile street driving. Very responsive and amazing wet grip. Snow/ice grip is somewhat disappointing for a Winter tire though...

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by 8inchAzN

I think they are at 7/32s as the first indicator is for the top 55%. See below.

The Blizzak WS-tires' Multicell tread compound comprises the top 55 percent of the tires' tread depth with a standard winter tread compound comprising the remaining 45 percent. When Blizzaks are approximately 50 percent worn, their "snow platform" tread depth indicators "connect" selected shoulder tread blocks to indicate that the Multicell tread compound is almost worn out, and that the enhanced snow and ice performance is about to end.

If you knew that, Why didn't you state the tread depth? It would have helped your description be more accurate. And help people give answers that would help.






I drive my AWD truck in the winter with a set of Nokian studded tires....

[churchx]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

The ws80's wear like absolute shit. One season here and I wouldn't want to push them for another one.
The worst part about these tire is the absence of any composure, they lack any sidewall strength and fold over at the slightest hint of load. They make the ride bouncy and handling is questionable at best. If I try to go WOT the car will literally squat/squirrel and try to hop in to the next lane.

Only saving grace is it made me appreciate the cars chassis that much more.

I'm definitely going to try more "sporty" winter tires next season (basically anything but the WS80's)
Oh the snow/slush/ice grip is fantastic...

Higher wear when warm & on tarmac, soft sidewalls, dull indirect steering are norm for most good winter tires. They need to be of soft rubber compound to still say soft enough in low temps, they need lot of thread sipes for better grip on ice & snow .. but all those small thread patches move/squirm easily around, adding "lag" in steering response. But they are there for a reason, for that extra grip for safer driving on ice/snow. And they are necessary tradeoff.
I'd say to give up search for some non-existing winter tire with lot of ice/snow grip AND good-sharp handling. It's one OR another. Stiffer sidewalls, stiffer (in cold) rubber compound, large thread patches - it's called "summer tires", ya know . And something in between (but not as good as "extremes") is "all-season" tires .
I heard some other good grip wise winter tires may do a bit better wear-wise then WS80 (eg. imho worth to try x-ice 3), but i've yet to see good (ice/snow) grip winter tire that would bring you sharp handling like that of summer ultra performance tires. I just take it as generic trait/as given/as unavoidable evil and don't ask for impossible, just relatively safely drive in winter on winter tires and get my sporty handling back in spring with seasonal switch of tires. And there is enough rally-ish/drift-ish sideways sportiness in winter when one drives on ice tracks

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by 8inchAzN

So 2 of my Blizzak WS80's are just above the multi layer compound indicator where as the other 2 are at 80%. They have been used for just over 1 season.

My question is which which 2 should be at the front? The logic for putting the worn ones at the front is so that the 4 tires would wear more evenly. The counter logic is that you want the better tires at the front to help you maintain traction in emergencies.

Thanks.

Edit, alternative solution would be to buy 2 new tires and put them on the back.

Which end were the more worn ones on? Put them on the opposite end to even out the wear.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Opposite end of the spectrum: I'm on Pirelli Sottozero 3. They are practically indistinguishable from a *good* Max Perf Summer tire in 90th %ile street driving. Very responsive and amazing wet grip. Snow/ice grip is somewhat disappointing for a Winter tire though...

I just want a better compromise, these two extremes are not appealing at all. I've heard good things about the Continentals and Yokohomas. Might go for those next winter. Might also try some cheap alloys too, the weight of 16" steelies vs the stock wheels is immense and definitely numb the steering response/acceleration.

Originally Posted by churchx

Higher wear when warm & on tarmac, soft sidewalls, dull indirect steering are norm for most good winter tires. They need to be of soft rubber compound to still say soft enough in low temps, they need lot of thread sipes for better grip on ice & snow .. but all those small thread patches move/squirm easily around, adding "lag" in steering response. But they are there for a reason, for that extra grip for safer driving on ice/snow. And they are necessary tradeoff.
I'd say to give up search for some non-existing winter tire with lot of ice/snow grip AND good-sharp handling. It's one OR another. Stiffer sidewalls, stiffer (in cold) rubber compound, large thread patches - it's called "summer tires", ya know . And something in between (but not as good as "extremes") is "all-season" tires .
I heard some other good grip wise winter tires may do a bit better wear-wise then WS80 (eg. imho worth to try x-ice 3), but i've yet to see good (ice/snow) grip winter tire that would bring you sharp handling like that of summer ultra performance tires. I just take it as generic trait/as given/as unavoidable evil and don't ask for impossible, just relatively safely drive in winter on winter tires and get my sporty handling back in spring with seasonal switch of tires. And there is enough rally-ish/drift-ish sideways sportiness in winter when one drives on ice tracks

I know how winter tires feel, I've been driving for over 15 years in Canada all over southern Ontario. These are by far some of the softest/laziest winter tires I've ever had. Not looking for summer tire levels of response but just something that will keep up with the relatively stiff suspension/chassis of the twins.
It's unsettling when you're taking an off ramp and the traction/stability control is kicking in and there's a goddamn minivan up your ass trying to get you to speed up. I've heard good things about the X-Ice too (it was going to be my second choice).
Prices can fluctuate a lot here for the X-Ice and other "premium" brands, with mail in rebates and promotions, so i'll see whats what at the time of purchase.