Supra (Toyota/BMW) vs. FT86 (Toyota/Subaru)

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ahhhh that makes sense!
He can only say what the marketing folks tell him he can say until the official releases are out there. That is the whole problem with people that believe articles written based on "interviews". The interviewers take something and spin it to what they want even if that wasn't what was meant.

Absolutely and that's why it's tough for me to believe what he says. Are the fake vents really functional? Toyota has been doing it for a while now; Tacoma hood scoop, Lexus and Camry bumper teardrop vents and now the Supra vents.

He is beloved here by many 86 fans but with the Supra, the spot was even bigger. Unfortunately the Supra went from Legendary to most hated car of 2019-2020.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Really? I don't think so. The MT is alive and well in Europe and Asia.




The USA will be the death of the MT not it's savior.

And here we go again. That may be true for the average appliance car, but the US enthusiasts are the ones making the most noise, time and time again, about sports cars coming without manual transmissions. It's the only reason the V10 M5 had a manual option, and it's the reason the GT3's manual option returned.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Absolutely and that's why it's tough for me to believe what he says. Are the fake vents really functional? Toyota has been doing it for a while now; Tacoma hood scoop, Lexus and Camry bumper teardrop vents and now the Supra vents.

He is beloved here by many 86 fans but with the Supra, the spot was even bigger. Unfortunately the Supra went from Legendary to most hated car of 2019-2020.

It isn't what he said that bothers me it is what is reported that he said.
Was there an error in translation?
Was the comment out of context from the rest of the conversation? This is a big one!
Did he misunderstand the question?
Did he even say the comment at all?
Was there some journalistic liberties taken during editing?


I have an almost pathological distrust of any journalist from a website that depends on clicks to make money. They have far to much interest in getting those clicks so stories are often of dubious quality when it comes to real information. Now, whoever the "insider" was that was updating the Supra forum they were almost bang on the money with everything they said.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

And here we go again. That may be true for the average appliance car, but the US enthusiasts are the ones making the most noise, time and time again, about sports cars coming without manual transmissions. It's the only reason the V10 M5 had a manual option, and it's the reason the GT3's manual option returned.

That segment is under 1% of the total sales. They may have success on some models but will not save the MT all on their own no matter how vocal they are.
Europe and Asia aren't making noise because the MT still rules there.


Keep in mind that I am one of the guys that want to keep it alive and will be sad when it is gone.

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Really? I don't think so. The MT is alive and well in Europe and Asia.




The USA will be the death of the MT not it's savior.

I meant although you used to have more AT cars around the world until now, every new sport car exported to USA is usually manual contrary to what European drivers prefer last few years, serial, ECVT or automatic gearboxes.
For example Porsches, BMW M or other German cars won't have MT versions for EU although US drivers can buy them with MT.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Thanks for so much insight! Who knew? Of course, Tada would never have done such a foolish thing, like no MT. That is of course superiors ... no no ... dark powers! We should act and show this is not acceptable.

Let's all shout together, we want our MT!

ok? We get you don't care about MTs, so why bother posting? Tired of reading folks clinging onto ancient technology?

[krayzie]

This is why the original first iteration of the 86/BRZ will never happen again. The committee has retook the company.

Either that or Tada has become senile.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by HKz

ok? We get you don't care about MTs, so why bother posting? Tired of reading folks clinging onto ancient technology?

Fanaticisim, I guess ... so annoying. Otherwise, I have no problem with people who like MT. Drive whatever you want. But don't tell me that MT is the only way to enjoy driving. Actually, just the opposite is true for modern high-performance sports cars.

“The only people who ask for manual gearboxes are two or three diehard British car journalists,” said Nicola Boari, the head of product marketing at Ferrari. Ferrari stopped selling sticks in 2011.

“We develop our cars to have class-leading levels of performance, grip, and handling,” Boari said. “For the technological level of integration our cars offer, a manual gearbox would reduce the performance capabilities—which, for Ferrari, is unacceptable.”

“These days, people are educated to the fact that it’s faster to drive with paddle shifters or the DSG gearbox, especially people who have been buying sports cars for a long time,” said John Paolo Canton, spokesman for McLaren in North America.

Read the rest, if you care, there

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

European drivers prefer last few years, serial, ECVT or automatic gearboxes.

You sure it's European Drivers or the European Union?

I mean they can't even buy incandescent light bulbs over there.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by mrg666

“We develop our cars to have class-leading levels of performance, grip, and handling,” Boari said. “For the technological level of integration our cars offer, a manual gearbox would reduce the performance capabilities—which, for Ferrari, is unacceptable.”

Translated, we have to make them as easy to drive as possible for the unskilled buyer.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Translated, we have to make them as easy to drive as possible for the unskilled buyer.

Sigh! Don't you get it? It is not humanly possible to drive one of those cars at their performance level while stirring that stupid stick. If that stick is more important to you than the car's performance, you are not a sports car enthusiast, you are just a fanatic fixated to that stick. Performance driving is fighting against the laws of physics, not acrobatics between a pedal and stick.

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Sigh! Don't you get it? It is not humanly possible to drive one of those cars at their performance level while stirring that stupid stick. If that stick is more important to you than the car's performance, you are not a sports car enthusiast, you are just a fanatic fixated to that stick. Performance driving is fighting against the laws of physics, not acrobatics between a pedal and stick.

Getting .002 second faster lap time is not the priority of most owners, it is the experience. Go hang with a bunch of Ferrari club guys and ask them how they feel about no MT being available these days, and how their older MT Ferraris values are going thru the roof.

[mrg666]

It is not .002 seconds. Go check 911 difference between manual vs PDK. BTW, I would love to own a classic manual Ferrari too.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It isn't what he said that bothers me it is what is reported that he said.
Was there an error in translation?
Was the comment out of context from the rest of the conversation? This is a big one!
Did he misunderstand the question?
Did he even say the comment at all?
Was there some journalistic liberties taken during editing?


I have an almost pathological distrust of any journalist from a website that depends on clicks to make money. They have far to much interest in getting those clicks so stories are often of dubious quality when it comes to real information. Now, whoever the "insider" was that was updating the Supra forum they were almost bang on the money with everything they said.

I understand your distrust as I feel the same way with the mainstream media in the U.S. However, this question of a manual transmission availability is a direct question that language barriers would not be an issue; yes or no? If it was in the pipeline, it would have been announced. That guy lost some cool points with me when he said he didn't like the NA/NA2 NSX, Skyline GTR's and TE37's.

I still want to believe in good old Toyota fashion, just like the MKIV, the MKV Supra will also be built for an easy conversion.

Another example, Tada-san talked about the vents and their function. The way I interpreted it was that the vents are fake (non functional) until you pop off the covers and "kustomize" it when you "because race car" as least for the door and hood vents.

I really hope they go as far as Porsche where they offer functional vents or offer the proper ducting that mount to the body and look OEM.