Supra (Toyota/BMW) vs. FT86 (Toyota/Subaru)

[mnuttall]

Originally Posted by JR

Next Year!!

Joke aside, I can't stand the majority of vehicles that have a turbo because of the lag. I will avoid them like Millennials avoid manual transmissions.

Interestingly, within my group at work ALL of the millenials drive vehicles with manual transmissions. I doubt that's representative of the general population though; it's a group of mechanical engineers.

[JR]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I only buy sports cars with manual transmissions.

You're missing out on cars like the new Supra though

[Lantanafrs2]

Tada also won't explain the torque dip. He tries to apply engineering rationale to marketing and cost related compromises. Asking him why the supra has no mt or the 86 has no power is pointless.

[HKz]

eh, while Tada has said some weird stuff for this Zupra he isn't the one to blame here, it is his superiors. They pushed back from shutting up folks with a hi-po variant 86 and they are the same folks to blame for the lack of a MT.. Since Tada is the face of the project, he has to become an apologist and give the best excuses he can muster..

[Lantanafrs2]

Well if he's true to form, the supra will have one niggling shortcoming that everyone can yack about.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by JR

Maybe Toyota is currently developing a manual transmission for this vehicle and it will be available 1-2 years after the initial release. Or not. Toyota knows better though. They knew the 86 needed a manual transmission.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Very few I would bet. Many just saved up the $13K for a used FRS.

Originally Posted by JR

If I was in the market for a new sports car, I would probably just spend a little extra and get an M2/Competition Package, since it can be optioned with a manual transmission. The reliability will be the same anyway

Originally Posted by HKz

eh, while Tada has said some weird stuff for this Zupra he isn't the one to blame here, it is his superiors. They pushed back from shutting up folks with a hi-po variant 86 and they are the same folks to blame for the lack of a MT.. Since Tada is the face of the project, he has to become an apologist and give the best excuses he can muster..

Yeah, excuses is right. First it was the torque then it's because the 86 has a manual. Supra forums wants to kill it fire, BMW forums are sitting back laughing at the Toyota Z4 Coupe. FT86 Club is maxed at 20K with a high APR auto loan.

I've read that the first batch of Supras going to the dealerships are the 1500 launch editions. 55K and it's almost certain dealerships are going to mark them up. Those things are going to sit.

By the time that comes, the Munich-based team will probably be working on variants such as the aforementioned four-banger; a targa roof is still possible, and there may yet be a manual transmission, although the latter is unlikely with the six because of concerns over shift quality with such a torque-rich engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-drive/

"Of course, the manual transmission has been in the development process," Tada said through an interpreter at the Detroit show. He acknowledged that, while an automatic is obviously faster, there's an undeniable pleasure in driving a stick shift.
Tada explained that the potential for a manual Supra is complicated by the positioning of the 86, which, of course, offers a stick shift. "I don't want to sound too business-y, but I also need to support the 86. Looking at the role of the 86 and the role of the Supra, I want to differentiate, make sure they each have their own identity," he said. "If the Supra had a manual transmission, there's nowhere for the 86 to go."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...-future-plans/

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by HKz

eh, while Tada has said some weird stuff for this Zupra he isn't the one to blame here, it is his superiors. They pushed back from shutting up folks with a hi-po variant 86 and they are the same folks to blame for the lack of a MT.. Since Tada is the face of the project, he has to become an apologist and give the best excuses he can muster..

Thanks for so much insight! Who knew? Of course, Tada would never have done such a foolish thing, like no MT. That is of course superiors ... no no ... dark powers! We should act and show this is not acceptable.

Let's all shout together, we want our MT!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Yeah, excuses is right. First it was the torque then it's because the 86 has a manual. Supra forums wants to kill it fire, BMW forums are sitting back laughing at the Toyota Z4 Coupe. FT86 Club is maxed at 20K with a high APR auto loan.

I've read that the first batch of Supras going to the dealerships are the 1500 launch editions. 55K and it's almost certain dealerships are going to mark them up. Those things are going to sit.

By the time that comes, the Munich-based team will probably be working on variants such as the aforementioned four-banger; a targa roof is still possible, and there may yet be a manual transmission, although the latter is unlikely with the six because of concerns over shift quality with such a torque-rich engine.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-drive/

"Of course, the manual transmission has been in the development process," Tada said through an interpreter at the Detroit show. He acknowledged that, while an automatic is obviously faster, there's an undeniable pleasure in driving a stick shift.
Tada explained that the potential for a manual Supra is complicated by the positioning of the 86, which, of course, offers a stick shift. "I don't want to sound too business-y, but I also need to support the 86. Looking at the role of the 86 and the role of the Supra, I want to differentiate, make sure they each have their own identity," he said. "If the Supra had a manual transmission, there's nowhere for the 86 to go."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...-future-plans/

Why did you quote an old speculative article when the facts are now known? The 4 cylinder is a go. But not coming to North America.
There has never been one word about a targa from Toyota. Not one.
If they were going to have a MT (with the 6) they would have had it on release. Not like they needed more time.

[JR]

Remind me who Toyota's target demographic is with a 55K Supra? Are they trying to pull an Acura? I'm getting flashbacks of the NSX debacle.

[JIM THEO]

You, Americans, as a big nation who have used first the AT have saved the manual transmission, otherwise car manufacturers would have thrown it in the garbage!
Most European markets prefer automatic or DSG over the classic manual even for supercars like Porsche Ferrari etc

[WolfpackS2k]

Bingo.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JIM THEO

You, Americans, as a big nation who have used first the AT have saved the manual transmission, otherwise car manufacturers would have thrown it in the garbage!
Most European markets prefer automatic or DSG over the classic manual even for supercars like Porsche Ferrari etc

Really? I don't think so. The MT is alive and well in Europe and Asia.




The USA will be the death of the MT not it's savior.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Why did you quote an old speculative article when the facts are now known? The 4 cylinder is a go. But not coming to North America.
There has never been one word about a targa from Toyota. Not one.
If they were going to have a MT (with the 6) they would have had it on release. Not like they needed more time.

My point wasn't the article rumors vs validity. It was about the manual gearbox excuses. He mentioned it was due to power and then in another interview it was because of the 86? If Toyota is going to offer a manual, stop with the bullshit and say it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RRnold

My point wasn't the article rumors vs validity. It was about the manual gearbox. He mentioned it was due to power and in another interview it was because the 86? If Toyota is going to offer a manual, stop with the bullshit and say it.

Ahhhh that makes sense!
He can only say what the marketing folks tell him he can say until the official releases are out there. That is the whole problem with people that believe articles written based on "interviews". The interviewers take something and spin it to what they want even if that wasn't what was meant.