Check engine light on new car..

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by Seanzky

I updated my thread here:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...5&postcount=12

It would be good manners to update in here instead since this is the "master thread".

[Seanzky]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

It would be good manners to update in here instead since this is the "master thread".

I would have done that but I can't stop others from posting in the other thread. Rather than copy and paste everything here, I thought it was good manners to provide the link to the thread I was referencing to.

[Christopher1977]

@RZNT4R any updates on your issue?

[funpolice]

dealership with subaru tech line for 2 days. believed leak on 2 injectors. replaced.
same engine codes came back after driving for 2 days.

others are talking pattern that causes this. the pattern i observed is that temperature changes from previous day(jump or drop like 10 degrees) will almost guarantee the engine light to come on.

same with humidity. but i think brz is more sensitive to humidity changes than temperature changes. and i believe this is mostly happening to manual transmission since it it's god a different air filter and a different manifold.

another thing: the brz's stock filter is super restrictive. i bought an k&n and see this will fix the issue. humidity will cause the airfilter even more restrictive..so .. i don't know. but i always us k&n filter for all my cars. the engine light still came back after the last fuel injector fix. so might as well try k&n filter

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by funpolice

another thing: the brz's stock filter is super restrictive. i bought an k&n and see this will fix the issue. humidity will cause the airfilter even more restrictive..so .. i don't know. but i always us k&n filter for all my cars. the engine light still came back after the last fuel injector fix. so might as well try k&n filter

Internal Subaru docs specify the new '17+ manual air filter to have almost 4 times the filter area as the old model.



It's slightly smaller, but has many many more pleats

[highway7]

Originally Posted by funpolice

dealership with subaru tech line for 2 days. believed leak on 2 injectors. replaced.
same engine codes came back after driving for 2 days.

others are talking pattern that causes this. the pattern i observed is that temperature changes from previous day(jump or drop like 10 degrees) will almost guarantee the engine light to come on.

same with humidity. but i think brz is more sensitive to humidity changes than temperature changes. and i believe this is mostly happening to manual transmission since it it's god a different air filter and a different manifold.

another thing: the brz's stock filter is super restrictive. i bought an k&n and see this will fix the issue. humidity will cause the airfilter even more restrictive..so .. i don't know. but i always us k&n filter for all my cars. the engine light still came back after the last fuel injector fix. so might as well try k&n filter

Bro...


Let the dealership do all the work and stop taking things into your own hands. Even if the BRZ stock filter is restrictive, 99% of everyone else has no problem with the stock filter and no CEL due to the filter. The last thing you need is the dealership denying you a warranty claim because of an aftermarket performance air filter. This is what warranty is for; let them deal with the headache.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by funpolice

dealership with subaru tech line for 2 days. believed leak on 2 injectors. replaced.
same engine codes came back after driving for 2 days.

others are talking pattern that causes this. the pattern i observed is that temperature changes from previous day(jump or drop like 10 degrees) will almost guarantee the engine light to come on.

same with humidity. but i think brz is more sensitive to humidity changes than temperature changes. and i believe this is mostly happening to manual transmission since it it's god a different air filter and a different manifold.

another thing: the brz's stock filter is super restrictive. i bought an k&n and see this will fix the issue. humidity will cause the airfilter even more restrictive..so .. i don't know. but i always us k&n filter for all my cars. the engine light still came back after the last fuel injector fix. so might as well try k&n filter

Don't just drop in a K&N filter, doing that makes you sound like you don't know a lot about engines or this platform, keep escalating with Subaru it will get fixed and it will help others as in the future a TSB may be released. Also you're under warranty if the issue is bad enough you can demand a rental if the repair cuts into the usage of your vehicle. Here in the US we would escalate the issue with subaru corporate or the like: https://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?W...=5895&footlink

Also even more important, the 2017+ has a new intake with higher flow and less turbulence (not the red or black manifold the actual airbox and tube and filter),it looks like you won't get any gains from a drop in for 2017+. The fact you think throwing a K&N drop in will fix the issue is hilarious and ill-informed. In fact adding something might be grounds for voiding your warranty. Also there's way more changes on the auto and manual motor than you think....

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by highway7

Bro...


Let the dealership do all the work and stop taking things into your own hands. Even if the BRZ stock filter is restrictive, 99% of everyone else has no problem with the stock filter and no CEL due to the filter. The last thing you need is the dealership denying you a warranty claim because of an aftermarket performance air filter. This is what warranty is for; let them deal with the headache.

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

Internal Subaru docs specify the new '17+ manual air filter to have almost 4 times the filter area as the old model.
It's slightly smaller, but has many many more pleats

Y'all took the words right out of my mouth

[funpolice]

i know the amount of engineering and the complexity is beyond anyone of us here and this also applies to subaru dealership mechanics AND subaru corporate. subaru does NOT produce all the components on the brz. no manufacturers nowadays does that for their cars. so this makes it even more challenging for subaru troubleshoot this issue.

It's been a year and the same engine codes are still here. subaru has had a good amount of time and attempts to fix this issue on my car or other brz with the same issue nation wide with NO success so far. so this proves they are shooting in the dark as well but with better knowledge and better understanding with the data they collected from my brz.

i don't expect to throw in a k&n filter in will fix the problem. like all my vehicles i've owned : 2000 honda civic si, nissan 370z, rav4 sport, even my sienna mini van. all got k&n filter. but no question, the k&n provides less restrictive air flow. if the engine needs more air , it gets more. let's eliminate this possibility. btw, with the k&n filter in, the car idles much smoother. I don't see the rough idle anymore(like it's almost dying, the whole car shakes and the shifter vibrates more in a wider motion)

i am just tired of booking appointment with the dealership, going there every time wait for an hour to get dropped at work, then call during the day to get status update, then wait for an hour to get picked up to the dealership and fucks my daily schedule. or even worse, drive a crappy loaner car for few days that smells like curry. (that's what happened last time when they replaced the fuel injectors).

i encourage other ppl who has the same problem with the brz report it to the dealership, this will drive subaru to fix the issue quicker as more pressure builds up from the owners.

*subaru provded a ecu flash to 'fix' the engine light issue for the the last gen brz. not sure if they'll do the same for this 2017+ models

[BRZnut]

If its been a year and the same issue has never been fixed, do you have Lemon Law in Canada to get them to buy the car back?

Also, did the K&N filter fix the codes?

[RZNT4R]

No lemon law in canada.

And Subaru is one of those makers who can build a lot more of the components of their cars than other makers. Like Kawasaki, Hyundai and Mitsubishi, Subaru (the car manufacturer) is only a part of what used to be known as Fuji Heavy Industries (and now known as Subaru Corporation). There might be the odd Denso, Aisin or Toyota part in there, but Subaru makes a LOT of things.

And as it's been said way earlier, the issue is known, there's a TSB. What seems to be the sticking point is expertise at ground level.

Consider this: The TSB adds a step telling the technician to check valve lash. That step is added at the END of the diagnostic chart, as the workflow is usually planned from least intrusive to most intrusive, and that's completely OK.

----HOWEVER----

That does not mean that the first diagnostic step is the most common failure. Time for real talk: I'm an auto mechanic and I do diagnostic. I know diagnostic charts are often messed up when it comes to real world fault finding. The fact that a TSB was put out means the failure is statistically more frequent than ALL the prior steps in the workflow. But this is a problem because it's put as the last step as it is the most intrusive, and in a dealer/warranty setting, they have to go through the steps, and that last step now becomes an engine R&R with internal work, which people will avoid like the plague, they will try EVERYTHING before doing that.

On my last visit to the dealer about these codes, that's what I was discussing with the service manager: A guy with a reasonable head on his shoulders who works outside of the dealer environment would likely check both Subaru and Toyota info, see that diagnostic chart, see that TSB on the subaru side and go "Oh!", do a few basic checks, but then would move to the valve lash instead of wasting hours doing the manufacturer approved thing. I told him I understood there was a bureaucracy involved and that that was the frustrating bit: If I had that happen out of warranty, I'd have just come in to work on a weekend and went straight for the valves and fixed it right then and there (because if the valves are too tight, it's easy to lap a few thou out of the shims without needing to order new ones). Yanking out a manual/NA subaru engine is child's play.

But long story short: They're not fixing it because they'll try to fix everything else before they take the engine out.

Since this is still causing problem, I don't know if Subaru/Toyota are working to improve the service bulletin with something like a date or VIN range and a warranty code so dealers don't have to be shy with doing the diagnostic, but that is the hope. Last I check toyota still hadn't published a TSB so who knows...

[edit]

Also, back to theory crafting about the air filter... Do you know what else the manual transmission car has different from the automatic? The actual detection threshold for those codes. At idle, P119E, P219A are detected via crankshaft speed variation. The threshold values are 25.7 to 31.5 RPM for automatic and 13.9 to 18.3 RPM for a manual. P119F, P219A at 21.5 to 25.8 RPM for automatic and 11.9 to 16.5 RPM for manual.

For P119E and P219Aa, the lower detection limit is almost twice as sensitive on a manual than on an automatic.

[funpolice]

good insight!

i'll wait for 2 more weeks before i go back to the dealership to followup.
side note: i do see alot of denzo parts under the hood. and i know the brz has a toyota dual injection design instead of the subarua's own

[nitro_alltrac]

I wonder what the reason is for such a dramatic difference in the rpm ranges for fault detection?

[RZNT4R]

Probably because under normal driving conditions, the engine would idle in D and push against the torque converter with the driver's foot on the brake, whereas a manual would idle in neutral with absolutely no load.