another ethanol problem

[alan.chalkley]

With company cars we are only allowed to use 91 or e10 octane and 91 is becoming scarce.
So when e10 is constantly used , the fuel gauges are getting stuck and the cars are running out of fuel.
Apparently it is too expensive to replace the fuel level sensor inside the tank , so we now try and guesstimate how much fuel is in the tank.
One way is to crawl under the cars and bang on the tank to hear if there is any e10 still in there.

[Tcoat]

E10 should have zero effect on fuel sensors. It has been used for decades. What kind of car?

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

E10 should have zero effect on fuel sensors. It has been used for decades. What kind of car?

Mostly toyota yaris and is e10 causing corrosion of the fuel level sensors inside the tanks?
I have only noticed this problem since changing from 91 to e10.
The cars also seem to use more e10 than 91 on each driving shift.

[ZionsWrath]

What is e10? Around here the 87/91/93 fuel is all "e10" I think? All the pumps say may contain up to 10% ethanol.

The only "e" fuel I ever see labeled as e# is e85.

I'm confused

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

E10 should have zero effect on fuel sensors. It has been used for decades. What kind of car?

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

With company cars we are only allowed to use 91 or e10 octane and 91 is becoming scarce.
So when e10 is constantly used , the fuel gauges are getting stuck and the cars are running out of fuel.
Apparently it is too expensive to replace the fuel level sensor inside the tank , so we now try and guesstimate how much fuel is in the tank.
One way is to crawl under the cars and bang on the tank to hear if there is any e10 still in there.

As Tcoat said how old are the company cars and what brand and model? They should technically have the same fuel tank hardware around the world and E10 should not be an issue. The fuel sender unit floats that calculate tank level must have some other defects causing them to stick. Something about this story doesn't seem right. I've found ethanol fuels to be fine even in my small motors at home even long term storage now without marine fuel stabilizer my small motors and cars start right now. Fuels have changed formulas alot in the last 10 years with ethanol in them and they don't cause as much damage as they used to for sure....

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

What is e10? Around here the 87/91/93 fuel is all "e10" I think? All the pumps say may contain up to 10% ethanol.

The only "e" fuel I ever see labeled as e# is e85.

I'm confused

E10 is 10% ethanol, in the US we all pretty much have 10% ethanol unless it literally says ethanol free.

The gas station I filled up with E85, has normal 93, 91 89 and 87 with 10 percent ethanol in all, an ethanol free 93 octane alternative. and of course E85 and E15 and VP racing fuels (vp racing in tanks in side)

[ZionsWrath]

That's what I thought, thanks.

OP, are you sure it is the sensor? It could be a bad gauge in the cluster. In any case, it shouldn't be too hard to guess your avg fuel economy and just fill it when you think you are half way. Unless you are like an ambulance or something and just idling 90% of the time but those type of applications usually have an hour meter.

I worked at FedEx and had a company gas card. The diesels fuel gauges were pretty crap so we just filled them up every other day or so. There was no policy on when to gas up, you could have done it everyday if you want as long as your receipts matched the charges on your card. It helped that they try to give you the same truck everyday so you should be familiar with it. I worked 1 year never saw anyone run dry.

Not sure what's going on but sounds like could be solved with some simple changes.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I'm on my second Yaris and constantly have to use gas that contains up to 10% ethanol. Haven't had any issues with my fuel gauge.

[Spuds]

I had this problem on my '03 Saab. The sensor in the tank would never read below 1/4 full. Idk if ethanol was to blame or something else. Started to sputter on a highway in the middle of Manchester with no emergency lane in the middle of rush hour. Was lucky to carry enough speed to get me up an off ramp and into a parking lot.

Just treated 1/4 tank as empty for a year until I got it fixed (read: got a real job).

[alan.chalkley]

The problem is on some of the company cars and the fleet manager said it is too expensive to fix , so hopefully drivers will be considerate and top up fuel after each shift.
Funny that the driver that came to help , had the same thing happen in the same car and also tried to convince the bean counters to get the cars fixed.
My solution would be to try 98 fuel , because low grade 91 and e10 can also have contamination problems (not a bean counter solution).
The cars are used around the clock by multiple drivers , so a tank full of fuel is used up every 2-3 days , so not likely a stale fuel problem.

[ZionsWrath]

What make and model? What year? Are they on lease? Does your work staff mechanics for its fleet vehicles?

Sounds like a silly problem that a business would have measures in place to address. If they are incompetent as you portray them maybe it's an opportunity for you, become their fleet manager

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

The problem is on some of the company cars and the fleet manager said it is too expensive to fix , so hopefully drivers will be considerate and top up fuel after each shift.
Funny that the driver that came to help , had the same thing happen in the same car and also tried to convince the bean counters to get the cars fixed.
My solution would be to try 98 fuel , because low grade 91 and e10 can also have contamination problems (not a bean counter solution).
The cars are used around the clock by multiple drivers , so a tank full of fuel is used up every 2-3 days , so not likely a stale fuel problem.

Wait. So is it all the cars or just that one? The 91 fuel shouldn't be any different for contamination than the 98 unless it is a storage tank issue. Just because it is a lower cost and octane does not mean it is an inferior fuel. High octane is not better gas it simply has more knock resistance. There is no advantage at all in using higher octane in a car that does not need it.
You state the cars are driven around the clock yet you still get 2 or 3 days out of a tank? The Yaris is good on fuel but that is amazing.
There is so much wrong with this story and I am 100% comfortable in saying that if there is any issue at all it has nothing to do with the type of fuel. How many miles are on the car? It could simply be worn out.

[why?]

The Toyota Yaris has odd gas sensor issues and always had. Plus the "tank" is not actually a tank, but a rubber bladder that will shrink or expand due to the weather.

Dealing with the issue is really easy, just fill up at half a tank every time.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Or know your driving habits and reset the trip meter at each fill up and repeat after driving said amount of miles. Filling up at 330 miles on the tank with the Yaris is a safe bet.

[alan.chalkley]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Wait. So is it all the cars or just that one? The 91 fuel shouldn't be any different for contamination than the 98 unless it is a storage tank issue. Just because it is a lower cost and octane does not mean it is an inferior fuel. High octane is not better gas it simply has more knock resistance. There is no advantage at all in using higher octane in a car that does not need it.
You state the cars are driven around the clock yet you still get 2 or 3 days out of a tank? The Yaris is good on fuel but that is amazing.
There is so much wrong with this story and I am 100% comfortable in saying that if there is any issue at all it has nothing to do with the type of fuel. How many miles are on the car? It could simply be worn out.

All of the cars have knocking/pinging issues on 91 and e10 fuel.
Most of the cars are 2005 models or newer.
The one i usually drive has done 352000kms and some have done 600000+kms.
We also have new ones , ( that have replaced "damaged write offs" that are rested upside down on their roof).