Replacing all 20 lug nuts. Will these be fine for track?

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Realizing one of your lugnuts is stripped when taking it off or putting it on and throwing it in the trash can? What part of that is hard to compute? Do you think maybe that lugnuts do not have wear and tear and that one set will outlive the entire car?

You made the comment you were in the computer field, so I was making a computer joke....


The "does not compute" part is that aluminum lug are bad news unless you are watching them like a hawk. It's not normal to be checking your lugnuts every day/week.
I check mine every couple months but even that isn't normal. Normal is the tire tech. puts your wheels on and the next time those lugs are touched is a year or two later when the same tech. takes them off.
Nobody checks their lugnuts ever unless they are a car person and know why they are even checking them in the first place. And if that non-car person does check to see if the are just tight they surely aren't checking to see if they are stripped.

And yes steel does wear but.....I have a 19 year old car with the same steel (aftermarket)lugs I put on when I got the car new and they are fine. Also have a 18 year old work van with the original steel lugs.
The car lugs have been off a good 50 or so times and I'm sure the van is up there but I've only had it for the last 5 years.

[Clipping_Path]

^ This. Folks on the boards seem to think it's completely normal to have to buy a new set of aluminum lugs or replace 2-3 a year.

It should be alarming that you completely stripped a lug nut in 6-12 months and call into question the entire set along with the safety of the car. I didn't and it finally took me losing my wheel to wake up and look into the issue to even discover the countless horror stories. And I was actually checking them like a hawk and it STILL happened to me.

When I brought it to the body shop, the very first question the owner asked me "Aluminum lugs, ha? Yeah......"

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Oh yea, and Porsche (and Lotus) recommend anti-seize. Go figure.

I got flammed when i said to use a little anti-seize to prevent busting lug studs.

[humfrz]

Are the OEM lug nuts on this car made out of aluminum or steel ..??


humfrz

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Are the OEM lug nuts on this car made out of aluminum or steel ..??


humfrz

Steel, you can feel the weight. I would not use anything but steel, myself.

[Razorlor]

Originally Posted by Teseo

I got flammed when i said to use a little anti-seize to prevent busting lug studs.

Anti-seize makes torque values drastically different from a dry installation.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

So this all begs the question, what place do aluminum lug nuts have? I've always have used steel in every vehicle I've owned so I never had any issues ever.
I didn't even know that having a lug nut strip so often was a thing until I started reading about it in these forums.
The aluminum fatigues, galls, fuses to studs, stretches and strips when you change on and off and they even just break when not touched from heat/cold changes.
It seems unless you like to gamble with your life and possibly others, only steel should be used and if weight savings is needed then titanium.

Good question. @Clipping_Path mentions track use.

My question is why? Are they easier/quicker to take off and put on? Un-sprung weight savings? Other?

There is something about using an aluminum lug nut, to screw on a steel stud, to hold on an alloy wheel - just don't seem right …


humfrz

[churchx]

There is a bit that while little, but they save weight. To some it matters more then to others, especially if one goes all the way to lighten anything one can.
Then there are myriads of alu lugnuts with specific looks that some want. Be it color, shape, branding or whatever.
While imho alu lugnuts may not work well for frequently tracked car which may see wheel changes often (or at least may require more frequent replacements), for car that sees wheel changes not as often, but like "normal driven cars" twice a year for seasonal tire change or slightly more often, imho they are safe enough to use, if one doesn't use powertools like impact to tighten them, which may greatly increase chances of them stripping threads. There is also a bit of what alu alloy and manufacturing process is used. Forged T7075-T6 really is not that weak.

[mkodama]

Whoever said “thermal expansion” leads to stripped threads on aluminum lug nuts needs to either double check my math on the thermal expansion or stop making things up.

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by Razorlor

Anti-seize makes torque values drastically different from a dry installation.

If you use use it like no tomorrow, then yes. The less you use it, the better

[why?]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Not all aluminums (the material) are made the same. Same goes for steel, or any other material.

Finally someone actually paying attention. Don't buy crap parts from manufacturers that don't give a crap.

I've had Rays forged lugs on my Yaris for a decade, and I've let all the usual techs at them like they were normal steel lugs, and guess what? Not a single issue. Forged aluminum is different. I've had only 1 tech even notice they were not steel.

Same with the gorilla forged lugs I have on my BRZ. It is all about how the metal is created and and how the lug nut is put together. Done right they are just like steel lug nuts.

Don't buy crap parts from manufacturers that don't care about quality and you won't have a problem.

[churchx]

To me several techs noticed how light they were, and so far (if i forget to mention to manually wrench 'em) also treated them roughly several times using impact and such .. so far for 2nd year, 8th remount no stripped threads so far.
There is little weight to be saved though, sometimes on some wheels balancing weights might be heavier then weight saved , so one should really rething if paying $100-$300 (or god save from how much titanium ones cost) for such meager gains is worth it. Rays closed ended short dura nuts were 17g, OEM - 25g. CSG in past had long open-ended ones of 18.4g. Many other aftermarket lugnuts are often closer to stock weight, thus probably more often chosen by looks.
If function over form, then one may think of getting longer and or open ended ones on used on track car with frequently changed wheels, eg. if longer ARP studs are used. Good forged duraluminium T7075-T6 or chromoly steel .. both will work. Just not the stupidly expensive titanium ones . Even trd fuel cap will give more gains then those

[Clipping_Path]

Originally Posted by mkodama

Whoever said “thermal expansion” leads to stripped threads on aluminum lug nuts needs to either double check my math on the thermal expansion or stop making things up.

There are only three common metals with a higher thermal expansion than aluminum: plutonium, potassium & sodium.

I called a leading performance shop to ask them about my lugs after my accident. And one of their knowledgeable techs laid out the "perfect storm" of why aluminum lugs should never be used on a DD:

Galvanic corrosion:
Steel in contact with a dissimilar metal - aluminum - is in electrical contact and will create a galvanic reaction. Steel is a cathode and aluminum the anode. The aluminum will corrode preferentially.

Elasticity
Aluminum will deform 3x as much as the same configuration in steel for any given load (69GPa vs 200GPa of steel). Aluminum's thermal expansion is about 2.5x more than stainless steel, precipitating friction.

Heat
The lower modulus of elasticity and higher rate of thermal expansion of a softer metal causes excessive friction and heat build up which, most importantly, exacerbates the galvanic corrosion.

Salt
One of the essential ingredients for galvanic corrosion is the presence of an electrolyte....like sodium acetate. Using aluminum lug nuts in a salty environment like the ocean/coast or where roads have been salted accelerates the corrosion. Aluminum while it does not rust, notoriously corrodes fast in these circumstances.

[Razorlor]

Originally Posted by Teseo

If you use use it like no tomorrow, then yes. The less you use it, the better

Of course, but even a little can affect the torque value by 20% or more. Every repair shop in the NE does it, or you would always break studs.