not starting, weird whine pressing ignition

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Passion86

Okay, sorry it's taken me a bit to get to where I could get out to work on my car. I hooked strait up to the battery, bypassing the car, and the starter is doing the same exact same thing. When I engage the solenoid the voltage drops to 4.50V. I've got brand new OEM battery cables, went and bought some good little wire brushes, and found this plumbers tool in my shop that's perfect for cleaning inside the battery terminal ends, and it cleaned out the terminal ends till they were nice and shiny copper. I went and had both starters I have tested, for the third time, and I watched both of them spin good, again. I charged the new battery back up to 12.97V, as it was down at 12.22 when I got done experimenting the other day, but with all of that the result is the same; solenoid sticks and voltage drops from basically 13V down to 4.5V when I engage the solenoid. The only thing I haven't replaced are the terminal ends that connect from the battery to the cable. Lol I guess I can go to Subaru or Toyota and order some.

I think you have a shorted armature winding in the starter motor. Whether or not it spins or in the worst case, hangs at the dead short is a matter of chance at where the rotor last came to rest. I'm pretty sure that whine is the rotor oscillating, bouncing on and off of the shorted winding.

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I think you have a shorted armature winding in the starter motor. Whether or not it spins or in the worst case, hangs at the dead short is a matter of chance at where the rotor last came to rest. I'm pretty sure that whine is the rotor oscillating, bouncing on and off of the shorted winding.

Ulramaroon, I've also thought the same, but then why when I have them tested, which is 3 visits and a total of 8 test, they test good every time, but when I hook it up to my battery it does all of this nonsense? My buddy and I went back out there tonight, and went ahead and intentionally hooked the starter up backwards, out of the car obviously, but it still did the same thing it has been doing. Him and I have known each other over 25 years, and have worked on a lot of cars together. We've ran into a lot of different problems, but this one has been the most difficult by far we've ran into.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Passion86

Ulramaroon, I've also thought the same, but then why when I have them tested, which is 3 visits and a total of 8 test, they test good every time, but when I hook it up to my battery it does all of this nonsense? My buddy and I went back out there tonight, and went ahead and intentionally hooked the starter up backwards, out of the car obviously, but it still did the same thing it has been doing. Him and I have known each other over 25 years, and have worked on a lot of cars together. We've ran into a lot of different problems, but this one has been the most difficult by far we've ran into.

That really sucks.

Does it do that nonsense 100% of the time? If you try and rotate the motor a little before you trigger it each time, does it maybe change anything? How about the orientation of the starter motor in the test fixture versus the engine bay?

The wires getting hot, together with the huge drop in voltage across the terminals, say short circuit.

Pull that sucker apart and get eyes on the commutator & windings.

https://demos.starbase7.net/t3Portal...00EGY023X.html

[guybo]

I'd be interested to know if the car would push start. Are you sure the flywheel isn't frozen?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by guybo

I'd be interested to know if the car would push start. Are you sure the flywheel isn't frozen?

I had that thought, but, the OP mentioned up above, that the engine will spin freely .....


humfrz

[Passion86]

Okay, so I've been out there a couple of times this week and fiddled with my car, even had someone else come out, but the results where all the same. Today I went out there, and decided to mess with my Honda Civic that got smashed a year ago. I was always having starting issues on that car since I got it, and decided to take a look at it again after dealing with my BRZ. I found the negative terminal wasn't grounded to a proper chassis ground, then cleaned everything. I noticed there was no ground cable on the starter, only a positive cable and the ignition cable. The ground terminal only had the nut, so I went ahead and hooked up a ground wire, then hooked the battery up. When I pressed the clutch and turned the ignition, the starter made the same whine as my BRZ... I was like "You gotta be joking." I went and disconnected the ground I had put on the the starter, tried again, and the Honda started right up, then died again due to over year old gas in the lines.

After discovering that with the Honda I went and took the negative cable off the starter, then pressed the ignition button... Bam! That starter started cranking, and the motor was trying to start, but I have a wire shorted somewhere that's keeping my baby from starting. So, I am chasing that down at the moment. Ran a resistance test between wires, with the negative cable off the battery, and maybe I didn't perform the test properly, but I checked continuity between the negative terminal and ground, with setting on 20k, and got .01, then when I put the diode on the positive cable I was expecting an infinit reading, but what I got was .27, if I remember correctly, (Test was ran a couple of days ago). So, with that reading that would indicate a short, as well with the starter turning without the ground cable connected. Any idea where I should start my search, and best way about chasing that shorted wire down?

[humfrz]

OK, @Ultramaroon ....... be the closer for this problem .....


humfrz

[Lakitu]

That's crazy. I can't think of any reason why a ground wire would cause this to happen unless something that its touching is positively charged somehow.

[Passion86]

So, I went out and started running continuity tests on fuses and relay to try and see what might be giving me continuity between the the ground and positive battery terminal. I came across 9 fuses that when I put them back in would generate continuity. There where 8 in the engine bay, MPX-B, Haz, AM2 No. 2, D/L, D FR Door, ABS No. 2, D FL Door, and DCC, which connects to ECU-B and Dome fuses, then one in the interior AMP. I labeled all the relays as I took them out, so Iwould know easily where they went. When I plugged everything back in though, my car won't even turn accessory mode on, and the ignition button is now completely unresponsive. I went back and checked the continuity between ground and positive again, and there was none this time. All the lights in the interior come on, as well as the open door light on the dash. After, that's when I decided to called it a day.

[Passion86]

Hello again, time for a little update. So, for the last week I've really been trying to learn how to track down a shorted wire. On a positive note, I've got power back to the inside of the car. My fault, when reinstalling fuses I put one in a spot only for the automatic, so when I ran out of the fuses I took out, I thought that was it. Traced wires from the interior that should have been getting power to the fuse that was missing, put one in, then bam power to the ignition button, and back to my whining starter issue. Never thought I'd be so happy to get back to that point. �� In my search to figure out why that was happening, I might have found a continuity issue between the IG2 relay and the IGS relay. I tried uploading a pic of the PDF with the points circled, but it kept telling me jpeg had incorrect file extension, so I guess I'll try later. For now, I guess I'll have to convey it in words the best I can. Between the IGS and IG2 relay, I get continuity between the wires on point #1 on IGS relay sided, and #3 point on the IG2 relay, as expected, but with the relays disconnected I'm getting continuity between wires on point #1 IGS and point #5 on IG2 as well. If I take out the 30amp IG2 Main fuse I loose continuity between the two, 1&5. Anyone know if I should have continuity between these two wires?

[Ultramaroon]

I know this wiring diagram is for 2016 and key start but I think, for the downstream area you're dealing with, it's the same.

[Azzudien]

Are you sure the starter gear is actually lined up with the flywheel and is making contact?

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Azzudien

Are you sure the starter gear is actually lined up with the flywheel and is making contact?

Yes, if I take the ground off the starter the starter will spin the motor like normal, but when I connect the ground back to the starter it binds up, and makes the whining noise like in the very first video I posted. So, pretty sure that means a shorted wire somewhere upstream from the starter, and I'm just trying to figure out exactly where now.

[Passion86]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I know this wiring diagram is for 2016 and key start but I think, for the downstream area you're dealing with, it's the same.

Umm, suggestions on where should I start looking in that thing you linked? Lol