Is 12lb total difference in weight going to affect a lot?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Yeah grm. I don't know what that last part has to do with anything. You used an article comparing different heights of wheels to come to the conclusion that width doesn't help and all on different tire compound. It's a bit of a stretch bud.

So you are backing off your statement that you have articles contradicting this? Fake news? The fact that nothing was gained with plus sizes, some of the tires actually being wider, is relevant. At least show us an article from a nationally known reputable source that backs up your contention that wider is better.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Don't help with what? Speed, grip, mpg? How about writing a coherent sentence first? I think everybody knows that wider tires are heavier, reduce top speed, and have more drag. But sports/race cars generally have wider tires than other cars. I wonder why? Even the car manufacturers are missing it, right? How many more times will you repeat this broken record?

It would be nice if you could come to a coherent conclusion with your sentences. So if sports/race cars generally have wider tires then it is true that putting on even wider tires is better? Really? How wide? That conclusion makes absolutely no sense. Toi answer your question about why sports cars have wider tires, it's for several reasons. First, they generally have more power. And secondly, they are designed for "spirited driving" through curves so a SLIGHTLY wider tire gives more lateral grip. But this is an exercise in balance since as you go wider you have the negatives you stated. Our twins are highly balanced, and the tire choice is part of that balance. So your argument makes absolutely no sense. Once you change that balance, like putting in a turbo, then you have to search for a new balance which, in sports cars, is generally a staggered fitment. Or do you dispute that as well?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by OfficeWorker

I'd be interested to see the results!

i dont think it ever got uploaded to the internet but i havent really looked for it.

Originally Posted by rvoll

So you are backing off your statement that you have articles contradicting this? Fake news? The fact that nothing was gained with plus sizes, some of the tires actually being wider, is relevant. At least show us an article from a nationally known reputable source that backs up your contention that wider is better.

it was from back in the days when a magazine was printed and that was it. if you search you can find forums talking about it and what not. i just have a hard time drawing such definitive conclusions when the test is changing wheel height, tire height, weight, width and tire compound. half a dozen variables and youre certain its the width that is making a car slower. its just silly.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

More is always better. More weight in the corners would give better rotational mass to keep the speed higher and stay that way for longer.
They should have come at least in at 25 lbs OEM but due to average fuel economy standard laws, they had to go lighter.

You don’t do science much do you.
Generally lighter is better. Particularly where unsprung and rotating mass is concerned.

1 of the challenges with the stock 17” wheels is that getting lighter ones is a challenge because they’re pretty good as stock. Meaning if performance is a goal then you need to spend a fair amount of cash to get better wheels.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by rvoll

It would be nice if you could come to a coherent conclusion with your sentences. So if sports/race cars generally have wider tires then it is true that putting on even wider tires is better? Really? How wide? That conclusion makes absolutely no sense. Toi answer your question about why sports cars have wider tires, it's for several reasons. First, they generally have more power. And secondly, they are designed for "spirited driving" through curves so a SLIGHTLY wider tire gives more lateral grip. But this is an exercise in balance since as you go wider you have the negatives you stated. Our twins are highly balanced, and the tire choice is part of that balance. So your argument makes absolutely no sense. Once you change that balance, like putting in a turbo, then you have to search for a new balance which, in sports cars, is generally a staggered fitment. Or do you dispute that as well?

Guys, google and YouTube can answer this;

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by rvoll

It would be nice if you could come to a coherent conclusion with your sentences. So if sports/race cars generally have wider tires then it is true that putting on even wider tires is better? Really? How wide? That conclusion makes absolutely no sense. Toi answer your question about why sports cars have wider tires, it's for several reasons. First, they generally have more power. And secondly, they are designed for "spirited driving" through curves so a SLIGHTLY wider tire gives more lateral grip. But this is an exercise in balance since as you go wider you have the negatives you stated. Our twins are highly balanced, and the tire choice is part of that balance. So your argument makes absolutely no sense. Once you change that balance, like putting in a turbo, then you have to search for a new balance which, in sports cars, is generally a staggered fitment. Or do you dispute that as well?

Again, I did NOT claim wider is ALWAYS better. Go back and read again. And nobody else did that either. Stop it, okay? Let me say nth time, stop assuming others are wrong and you know the best kept secret in the automotive world. Neither I am disputing anything you say nor you are claiming anything original. I like my wider tires and they are staying for the reasons I don't care to discuss with you.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by 86 South Africa

You don’t do science much do you.
Generally lighter is better. Particularly where unsprung and rotating mass is concerned.

1 of the challenges with the stock 17” wheels is that getting lighter ones is a challenge because they’re pretty good as stock. Meaning if performance is a goal then you need to spend a fair amount of cash to get better wheels.

You don't do much reading, do you? I've always said that lighter is better. However, FOR DAILY DRIVING, (which is what I said), it really doesn't make much difference. Do you really disagree with that? Really? Now if you are competing, it's a whole different matter. And you are right that the stock 17's are pretty good. I've purchased a number of lighter wheels in the past and they tend not to be as strong as stock wheels. Of course, you can pay a lot of money and get strong, light wheels if you so desire. I just don't see that as a necessity for driving on the street over OEM's.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think it ever got uploaded to the internet but i havent really looked for it.


it was from back in the days when a magazine was printed and that was it. if you search you can find forums talking about it and what not. i just have a hard time drawing such definitive conclusions when the test is changing wheel height, tire height, weight, width and tire compound. half a dozen variables and youre certain its the width that is making a car slower. its just silly.

Forums, just like the internet itself, has tremendously unreliable information from fanboys. Again, we concur that the choice of a tire/wheel combination is complex, and I've said so in the past. The only way to really know is to appropriately test the alternatives and identify the mutually exclusive factors in a blind test. Since there are virtually no tests SPECIFICALLY for this car, we must look at the IMPERFECT tests that have been done like the one in C&D and at Tirerack. There are no reviews BY MAJOR PUBLICATIONS/SOURCES, that would back up using wide wheels and tires on this car. I know you are trying to justify the use of wide wheels and tires -- but there really is no TESTED justification. Again, wider wheels and tires that are more flush look sexy and make you feel good about your car. And I have absolutely nothing against that. Hell, I'm getting 225's rather than 215's even though testing has shown that 215's are perfectly fine for street driving. Is there justification for that? Not really. But a lot of you have 225's on the car and I like the look -- and I do listen to your input. I would not have changed from the OEM Primacy HP's for the PS4S's without the input received on this forum. But I do realize that I don't need to do that but I'll FEEL better if I do. So I really do understand the wide wheel/tire and lowering stuff. Headers, tunes, exhaust systems, coilovers, FI's, etc., are of significant interest to me, but I know that I don't need them and they have negative impacts as well like noise, ride quality, engine life, warranty, etc. What I've found over the years, are that there are a lot of less experience owners who think they need all of this stuff and few people bring out the negatives.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Again, I did NOT claim wider is ALWAYS better. Go back and read again. And nobody else did that either. Stop it, okay? Let me say nth time, stop assuming others are wrong and you know the best kept secret in the automotive world. Neither I am disputing anything you say nor you are claiming anything original. I like my wider tires and they are staying for the reasons I don't care to discuss with you.

You INFERRED, by omission, that wider is better. And if you try to justify 245's on an NA twin, you are saying wider is better. So let me say this once, again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS IF YOU WANT TO PUT WIDE TIRES ON YOUR CAR. I think they look great. It's just like a lot of other upgrades. In fact, I do a lot to my cars that feel good to me but are really not necessary for performance. AND I DO NOT THINK LESS OF YOU for doing that. What I don't like, is telling people that these things actually improve the performance of the car. If we only bought cars for performance, then we wouldn't care how the car looks. For us car guys, it's emotional and that is just fine as reason and perhaps is even more important to each of us than the performance. But you have a lot of people here who read these forums and actually believe that getting extra wide tires/wheels and other stuff will improve the performance of their car. Having this discourse will help them think about BOTH the plusses and minuses of these upgrades. And in my mind, that's a good thing.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You INFERRED, by omission, that wider is better. And if you try to justify 245's on an NA twin, you are saying wider is better. So let me say this once, again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS IF YOU WANT TO PUT WIDE TIRES ON YOUR CAR. I think they look great. It's just like a lot of other upgrades. In fact, I do a lot to my cars that feel good to me but are really not necessary for performance. AND I DO NOT THINK LESS OF YOU for doing that. What I don't like, is telling people that these things actually improve the performance of the car. If we only bought cars for performance, then we wouldn't care how the car looks. For us car guys, it's emotional and that is just fine as reason and perhaps is even more important to each of us than the performance. But you have a lot of people here who read these forums and actually believe that getting extra wide tires/wheels and other stuff will improve the performance of their car. Having this discourse will help them think about BOTH the plusses and minuses of these upgrades. And in my mind, that's a good thing.

I don't think you understand what infer means.

[SUB-FT86]

You can have your cake and eat it too if you are smart.

Stock tires and wheels weigh 41.5-42 lbs(Tire is 21lbs and wheel is 20.4 or 20.8 lbs) with a 17x7 wheels with low grip.

My 17x9 RPF1 weigh 15.95 and my 245 40 17 Falken 510 which is way more grippier than stock and wider only weighs 23 lbs so I'm around 39 lbs. I plan to get the P4S after my tires are done which weigh 22lbs instead.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You INFERRED, by omission, that wider is better. And if you try to justify 245's on an NA twin, you are saying wider is better. So let me say this once, again, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS IF YOU WANT TO PUT WIDE TIRES ON YOUR CAR. I think they look great. It's just like a lot of other upgrades. In fact, I do a lot to my cars that feel good to me but are really not necessary for performance. AND I DO NOT THINK LESS OF YOU for doing that. What I don't like, is telling people that these things actually improve the performance of the car. If we only bought cars for performance, then we wouldn't care how the car looks. For us car guys, it's emotional and that is just fine as reason and perhaps is even more important to each of us than the performance. But you have a lot of people here who read these forums and actually believe that getting extra wide tires/wheels and other stuff will improve the performance of their car. Having this discourse will help them think about BOTH the plusses and minuses of these upgrades. And in my mind, that's a good thing.

So, in the end, you are implying that wider is always better, huh? I completely disagree!

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Forums, just like the internet itself, has tremendously unreliable information from fanboys.

You’re the perfect example.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Forums, just like the internet itself, has tremendously unreliable information from fanboys.

You need to relax kiddo, you might fall off your booster seat.