Back To Basics Toyota 86: STX & 86 Cup Street Build

[PuslarBrrrz]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Logs

Yup it is pretty sweet we have access to such an easy modification. Having been around the new MX-5s in the shop, they do not have it as easy when it comes to extra power. I too am worried about noise but I have a few plans to address that if the Thermal R&D exhaust is too loud with the header.

I've received some comments already that this is a touch unbelievable. I have one day left to decide whether to re-dyno the car this Friday on pump gas or continue forward with my header install. Downsides are my next dyno day will be a while off and I won't have header numbers.

I'd personally go on and install the header and see what it does. There are plenty OEM on 91/93 vs UEL on 93 and E85. But no OEM on E85 vs UEL on E85. I'd be very curious to see how that area under the curve gets filled.

We know the general gains from going to a catless UEL vs OEM are on pump gas, but are the increases as good when they both are on E85 since the engine gains a majority of the HP from the aggressive timing E85 allows? The tune will remain constant and only the exhaust flow will dictate the results.

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz

I'd personally go on and install the header and see what it does. There are plenty OEM on 91/93 vs UEL on 93 and E85. But no OEM on E85 vs UEL on E85. I'd be very curious to see how that area under the curve gets filled.

We know the general gains from going to a catless UEL vs OEM are on pump gas, but are the increases as good when they both are on E85 since the engine gains a majority of the HP from the aggressive timing E85 allows? The tune will remain constant and only the exhaust flow will dictate the results.

I appreciate the input! I passed around the idea at the shop and everyone agrees that moving forward with the header install is the best course of action too. Header is going on tomorrow!

[Lincoln Logs]

This week has been hectic but I finally got the header installed and went back to the dyno! One thing I wanted to point out about the header is the routing of the primaries. Unlike some designs, it keeps them away from the oil pan and makes efficient use of the space.



Weight is also down with the OFT header, it saves about 10lbs compared to the OEM unit.



The factory header weighed in at ~20lbs and the factory over pipe is roughly the same weight as the OFT over pipe. In the shuffle I forgot to weigh those on the scale.



Now, the results! The car made a 206WHP and 163TQ...which on the surface doesn't sound that impressive but it is important to remember peak numbers are only part of the story. The bigger change is the area under the curve; the torque dip is eliminated and the car gained 10 ft-lbs in the middle of the power band. The improved mid-range is very noticeable on the street and will make a big difference pulling the car out of corners at autocross.



I am also pleasantly surprised with the exhaust note. I was really worried the car would be too loud or drone while cruising on the freeway. I think a big key to this is re-using the factory front pipe which has a HUGE cat in it, that goes a long way for controlling the extra sound from the header. I'll make a video at some point in the future just focusing on the sound of the exhaust so people can get a better idea of it.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7cKc5_ALI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7cKc5_ALI[/ame]

For now, the car is done with power adders and I can change my focus to improving the suspension for track use. I am really happy to announce Whiteline Suspension has come on board as a sponsor this year and I will be creating a video series focusing on suspension set up and explaining my approach to suspension tuning. First step for me will be installing a set of the Whiteline MaxG coilovers!

[PuslarBrrrz]

Interesting results, no one can question your original dyno of the stock header on E85 anymore for sure. The results are in line with my calibrated butt dyno when I went from a Gruppe S UEL to stock. Top end didn't change but the punchiness of the low and mid range was lost. I'm surprised you torque from 3500-4500 isn't more flat but that's such a small range that you won't even notice in lower gears.

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz

Interesting results, no one can question your original dyno of the stock header on E85 anymore for sure. The results are in line with my calibrated butt dyno when I went from a Gruppe S UEL to stock. Top end didn't change but the punchiness of the low and mid range was lost. I'm surprised you torque from 3500-4500 isn't more flat but that's such a small range that you won't even notice in lower gears.

That print out makes it hard to see, it is really flat in reality and within a few tq the whole way across. Here is a better view of the curve, this is comparing v3.02 Stage 2+ E85 to the best run from yesterday.

[PuslarBrrrz]

Ah, thats a lot better! Man you are making me want to put a header on again. lol I do miss that midrange. Maybe you can post your finding in the Engine,Exhaust forum. I think it would generate some interest.

[Lincoln Logs]

I already mentioned Whiteline Suspension is on board as a sponsor this year but I haven't had the chance to do a proper unboxing of the coilovers. This video will be the start of a mini series dedicated to the art of suspension tuning, so if there is content you want me to focus on please let me know.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERn5FxLVeE"] Whiteline MaxG Coilover Unboxing[/ame]

This weekend I will be install these coilovers and I'll be pairing them with some Verus Engineering Camber plates. This gives me just enough time to drive the car around a little before getting an alignment, autocross is next weekend!



--------

Originally Posted by PuslarBrrrz

Ah, thats a lot better! Man you are making me want to put a header on again. lol I do miss that midrange. Maybe you can post your finding in the Engine,Exhaust forum. I think it would generate some interest.

That's a good suggestion, I'll post over there this weekend if I get the chance.

[Lincoln Logs]

Picked up a set of RE-71s, 245/40/17, last week to get ready for autocross this weekend. I cannot wait to mount these on the car and see how they look!



This weekend was filled with some installation fun with the Whiteline MaxG coilovers and Verus Engineering camber plates. I'll have a video going over the installation uploaded within the next day or so.



Install video!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuiFYbbX9w"]Whiteline MaxG installation[/ame]

[Turbo86]

Very interested to hear about how the MaxG's feel on the road and on track. Do you think the 5k spring rate will be too soft for autox use? So with these, you adjust ride height with the spring preload? Is it a better design on coilovers when the lower body twists to adjust height without sacrificing stroke length?

[Lincoln Logs]

Originally Posted by Turbo86

Very interested to hear about how the MaxG's feel on the road and on track. Do you think the 5k spring rate will be too soft for autox use? So with these, you adjust ride height with the spring preload? Is it a better design on coilovers when the lower body twists to adjust height without sacrificing stroke length?

Working on a video to talk about this but I am VERY impressed with the quality of these dampers. They are exceptional on the street and ride better than stock. As far as the spring rates, I'll be covering that in my full report.

You do adjust ride height by moving the spring perch but this is a far superior design to the typical three piece coilover. You always have more overall stroke with a one piece shock, period.

It is a common misconception that a three piece shock lets you "maintain bump travel" when it reality there are physical limitations to that. Whether it is a tire hitting the tub or arms reaching the limits of their range of motion. With a three piece shock it is also easy to create a non-ideal ratio of bump/droop which can cause strange handling or have a tire crashing into hard parts. Three piece designs also give up stroke, there is no way around this, you need to make room (aka a compromise) for the shock to be moved up or down.

If the one piece shock is designed correctly you already maximized bump travel (for a range of heights) and benefit from greatly increased droop travel. This is commonly overlooked and crucial to better ride quality and handling on track.

[Turbo86]

Thanks for the update and the info, that's good to hear that you like them. I'll have to do some more research, i didn't know about those differences.

I just finished reading Vorshlag's red FRS project thread where they're running the MaxG's. Do you plan on running larger sway bars like they are? This is the article I'm referring to: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showt...?t=8145&page=2

This is what they had to say regarding the ride height and bump/rebound ratio:
"Compared to the stock ride heights of 14.5" front and rear, we have lowered the front 1" and the rear .75". This 13.5" F / 13.75" R ride height gave the shortened Whiteline MAX-G coilovers the ideal bump/rebound travel ratio: 3/5ths total travel in bump and 2/5ths in rebound, from ride height. We spent a good bit of time testing this and coming up with these numbers - it wasn't some "it looks good" setting, it was what these shocks worked best at. "

[Lincoln Logs]

Last week got a little hectic with work so I didn't have time to film a video of street driving impressions, but it is in the works! After a quick alignment I finally mounted the wheels and tires, I am in love. Test alignment was: Front -2.5*, 0 toe, and 6* caster | Rear -2.25*, 1/16th Total Toe In.



After a quick wash and prep, it was time for autocross. My buddy Dan from 949 Racing came down in Beaker, their STR prepped ND for a little show down and to hang out.



Unfortunately rain was in the forecast for the day and the predictions were right, it rained throughout the day. Thankfully there was not a lot of standing water but it was a nice slick surface to drive on, going fast was not in the cards.



So how did it drive? I set the dampers in the middle of their adjustment range and did not find a need to touch them once. The balance was shifted towards a more neutral-push in these conditions, but that is not surprising considering the rear rates are almost the same as the TRD lowering springs and the fronts are about 1.5kg more. The way these coilovers handle the big bumps at the stadium was very impressive, I never found the car getting unsettled or upset no matter the input.

[img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4785/38970737530_4ff02***b8_b.jpg[/img]

More important, and a sign of a well valved damper, I didn't have to drive around any problems or balance changes. The car continued to do what I asked of it without question. My wife was also able to hop in, after not driving the car since the first autocross, and absolutely kill it. She loved the way the car drove and found the added stability from the balance change more favorable for her driving style.



I also came away very impressed with the Bridgestone RE-71r in the rain. Being an extreme performance summer tire I did not expect much in terms of grip but it did just fine. I am curious to try the same set up in the dry to see how it feels with the tires offering maximum grip.



The results of the show down? I came away very surprised and finishing 1 second faster than Dan taking second place overall in the instructor class. The cherry on top was my wife picked up the win for Fastest Woman of the Day! I'll have the video finished up by the end of this week showing some laps and more impressions of the coilovers, stay tuned.



--------

Originally Posted by Turbo86

Thanks for the update and the info, that's good to hear that you like them. I'll have to do some more research, i didn't know about those differences.

I just finished reading Vorshlag's red FRS project thread where they're running the MaxG's. Do you plan on running larger sway bars like they are? This is the article I'm referring to: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showt...?t=8145&page=2

This is what they had to say regarding the ride height and bump/rebound ratio:
"Compared to the stock ride heights of 14.5" front and rear, we have lowered the front 1" and the rear .75". This 13.5" F / 13.75" R ride height gave the shortened Whiteline MAX-G coilovers the ideal bump/rebound travel ratio: 3/5ths total travel in bump and 2/5ths in rebound, from ride height. We spent a good bit of time testing this and coming up with these numbers - it wasn't some "it looks good" setting, it was what these shocks worked best at. "

I do plan on running some bigger sway bars, the front definitely feels like it needs a touch more roll resistance. I'll have a better idea once I get an event under my belt in dry weather.

I too found the same ride heights put these struts/shocks in the sweet spot for their stroke range. The car looks great at this height and is very functional.

[dattran86]

Any idea how much it is lowered compared to stock? from pictures, I'm assuming it is about 1 inch?

[Lincoln Logs]

Finally had some time to finish up the video, enjoy!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKeiqOc7ac"]Whiteline MaxG Coilover Field Testc[/ame]

---------

Originally Posted by dattran86

Any idea how much it is lowered compared to stock? from pictures, I'm assuming it is about 1 inch?

It is about 1" lower than stock, I matched the ride heights from the TRD lowering springs.