P0016 on a 60k mile car

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by steve99

no need to "neutralise" ecu or to change vin to get car to start.


you will need to flash in correct calibration into ecu (depending on car year and auto manual) if its different and you will need to loop pins 4 and 13 for 30 minutes each time you swap a ecu.


just read out your current ecu calibration like ZA1JB01C and flash that into new ECU




the ecu doesn't handle immobiliser or key fobs that's done in immobiliser module. you just need to get new ecu to talk to immobiliser, hence the 30 minute loop of pins 4-13.

Wonderful, thank you so much!!

[alxtheoreo]

Originally Posted by steve99

If its a dealer will be new ecu with correct calibration for your car

I got my car back last night. All of the charges were covered under Toyota's emissions warranty (8 years or 80,000 miles).

If the code rears it head again, I will assume the cam gear needs to be replaced...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[rusty959]

I finally got it put back together after replacing both intake sprockets, haven't replaced the ECU. As expected, the CEL came back on 2nd time driving it. I suppose I'm in the market for a new ECU now.

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by rusty959

I finally got it put back together after replacing both intake sprockets, haven't replaced the ECU. As expected, the CEL came back on 2nd time driving it. I suppose I'm in the market for a new ECU now.

I got a used ECM from Ebay and will be replacing over the weekend. Fingers crossed!

I'll ask again -- does anyone know of an incident where it was the sprocket that malfunctioned for sure (I know sometimes the ECM had to be replaced as well, but I'm really curious to see one where it was a *mechanical* failure)? Based on the limited data points here it would suggest that they should revise the procedure to replace the ECM first before replacing the sprockets...

[EigenGuy]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

I got a used ECM from Ebay and will be replacing over the weekend. Fingers crossed!

I'll ask again -- does anyone know of an incident where it was the sprocket that malfunctioned for sure (I know sometimes the ECM had to be replaced as well, but I'm really curious to see one where it was a *mechanical* failure)? Based on the limited data points here it would suggest that they should revise the procedure to replace the ECM first before replacing the sprockets...

I replaced the ECM (used on ebay), sensors, and OCVs before replacing the sprockets and the code came back. Just last week I started getting the idle problems as the car died at every stoplight.

By the way, how was the sprocket job? Did you have to buy Subaru's specialty pullers and tooling? Did you buy brand new sprockets for $600 each? Also, do you have a parts list for all the other o-rings and miscellaneous parts used for the job? Sorry about all the questions, I just want to be well prepared to get this done in a weekend.

[SLVRSRFR]

A thought popped into my head last night...

Could a car theoretically suffer from P0018, and then suffer from P0016 further down the road, or vice versa?

Just curious, because it usually appears to be one or the other; I don't think I've seen a car experience both. But if the cam gear on the other side theoretically has the same "faulty" part in it, and was not touched or replaced as part of the first repair, could it not theoretically fail as well later on under the same circumstances?

P0018 was a nightmare to deal with, and I was lucky enough to receive amnesty from Subaru Canada at the time as I was JUST outside of my warranty (110k km). What worries me is what if the other one were to fail further in time or mileage (I'm already at 130k now)? Knowing that some cars experience P0016, and others experience P0018, which is essentially the same issue with the same part but on different sides of the engine, it seems plausible that if the fix were only performed to the one side, the other side would still be left prone to failure in the future.

Subaru helped me out the first time because I was still within the time period of my warranty and was only 10k over the mileage, but if theoretically the other one were to fail at, say, 200k, I doubt they'd be willing to help out again even though it's a known issue.

Anyways, just rambling my thoughts onto the screen. I really hope it doesn't happen.

Cheers!

[TheStig85]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

I replaced the ECM (used on ebay), sensors, and OCVs before replacing the sprockets and the code came back. Just last week I started getting the idle problems as the car died at every stoplight.

By the way, how was the sprocket job? Did you have to buy Subaru's specialty pullers and tooling? Did you buy brand new sprockets for $600 each? Also, do you have a parts list for all the other o-rings and miscellaneous parts used for the job? Sorry about all the questions, I just want to be well prepared to get this done in a weekend.

I can't answer your other questions, but the sprockets are about $175 each. Definitely nowhere near $600.

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

I replaced the ECM (used on ebay), sensors, and OCVs before replacing the sprockets and the code came back. Just last week I started getting the idle problems as the car died at every stoplight.

By the way, how was the sprocket job? Did you have to buy Subaru's specialty pullers and tooling? Did you buy brand new sprockets for $600 each? Also, do you have a parts list for all the other o-rings and miscellaneous parts used for the job? Sorry about all the questions, I just want to be well prepared to get this done in a weekend.

Sorry to hear this... So now we have a mechanical issue for sure. A few questions:

1) How long did you have the code go away before it came back?
2) Was the car behaving normally before the codes came back?
3) Was the engine acting up when the codes came back or did you have idle problems after the lights came back?
4) Can you describe the engine issue a little more? Does it seem to run fine above idle, for example?

On the repair question -- I have no idea actually. I'm trying to not do the actual sprocket change if I can. A few have said that they've swapped the ECM and have been fine since, but I think yours is the first instance where the sprocket does have a mechanical issue.

Can you ask whoever does the change job to save the thing and the collective here can see if there's something to be gleaned from your old part?

[noonan76]

Originally Posted by SLVRSRFR

A thought popped into my head last night...

Could a car theoretically suffer from P0018, and then suffer from P0016 further down the road, or vice versa?

Just curious, because it usually appears to be one or the other; I don't think I've seen a car experience both. But if the cam gear on the other side theoretically has the same "faulty" part in it, and was not touched or replaced as part of the first repair, could it not theoretically fail as well later on under the same circumstances?

P0018 was a nightmare to deal with, and I was lucky enough to receive amnesty from Subaru Canada at the time as I was JUST outside of my warranty (110k km). What worries me is what if the other one were to fail further in time or mileage (I'm already at 130k now)? Knowing that some cars experience P0016, and others experience P0018, which is essentially the same issue with the same part but on different sides of the engine, it seems plausible that if the fix were only performed to the one side, the other side would still be left prone to failure in the future.

Subaru helped me out the first time because I was still within the time period of my warranty and was only 10k over the mileage, but if theoretically the other one were to fail at, say, 200k, I doubt they'd be willing to help out again even though it's a known issue.

Anyways, just rambling my thoughts onto the screen. I really hope it doesn't happen.

Cheers!

i have been wondering about this as well

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by SLVRSRFR

Could a car theoretically suffer from P0018, and then suffer from P0016 further down the road, or vice versa?

Yes. Easily.

[EigenGuy]

Originally Posted by Jamestl

Sorry to hear this... So now we have a mechanical issue for sure. A few questions:

1) How long did you have the code go away before it came back?
2) Was the car behaving normally before the codes came back?
3) Was the engine acting up when the codes came back or did you have idle problems after the lights came back?
4) Can you describe the engine issue a little more? Does it seem to run fine above idle, for example?

On the repair question -- I have no idea actually. I'm trying to not do the actual sprocket change if I can. A few have said that they've swapped the ECM and have been fine since, but I think yours is the first instance where the sprocket does have a mechanical issue.

Can you ask whoever does the change job to save the thing and the collective here can see if there's something to be gleaned from your old part?

1) I had P0016 come in while data logging for a Delicious Flash and Go tune as I have a C30 JR supercharger. In order to data log, they wanted me to make multiple 3000-redline pulls. This tells me that I may have actually pushed wear particles into the VVT sprocket close clearances. I cleared the code that day with my ECUtek, then it came back the second time I drove the car (as it's programmed to do). I then aborted the Delicious tuning and re-flashed the CARB legal JR tune. I think it was the third time I cleared P0016, both P0016 and P0018 came in. This wasn't out of negligence as I was working through oil changes, OCV swaps, sensor swaps, sensor shims, jdl UEL header removal, and an ECM change. The issue began in August, so I've essentially been in limp mode since then, only driving the car when I absolutely have to.

2) From August to about a week ago, the engine showed zero symptoms other than limp mode. Even after clearing the code, the next drive always felt normal. Oil temps were all fine. I wish I had an oil pressure gauge.

3) Engine felt pretty normal, maybe a slight idle drop but nothing I would be concerned about. Neal at The Racers Line in Concord CA said he has seen engine fires from this issue, so I was very light on the throttle when I did drive it.

4) Last week I was driving in limp mode and the engine would fall to about 250 rpms when approaching a stop light. After a second or two, it would either die or ramp back up to 500 rpm just to fall again. Above idle, it seemed to run fine, but then again I was trying to keep it under 3000 rpm.

I've been busy with work so I haven't had time to dive into this thing yet. Frankly I was hoping someone would find the root cause on this thread so I know what to look for. I have a 2013 that's way out of warranty and the supercharger is still installed. I don't necessarily trust the dealership so I'd really like to leave the charger on the car and solve this myself.

Where are you guys finding replacement sprocket assemblies for $160? Are they used? parts.subaru.com is showing something like $600. Also the shop manual calls for unique pullers for each pulley in order to pull the timing cover. Has anyone done this job with regular pullers?

[rusty959]

I had mechanical failure and idle dip/stall issues outlined in post #1, similar to what EigenGuy is experiencing. As far as P0016 vs P0018, I threw P0016, found I have the assumed mechanical failure of that backplate on my passenger intake sprocket, so I checked my driver's intake sprocket and it had the same failure, so I replaced both. I suspect it's possible I would have had P0018 down the road.

I bought the passenger's intake sprocket for like $90 off ebay NIB but the passenger I paid $175 for or so. ECU I bought used on ebay for $130. O-rings/oil seal I have listed on an earlier post. If you are doing P0018 you might consider getting the o-ring behind the belt tensioner which I didn't list, I didn't realize it was there until assembly and decided to yolo it and use the old one. I just used black RTV for the timing cover, same stuff I used on the oil pan for over 30k miles with no issues.

As far as replacing it DIY style, I probably should have made a write up while I was doing it, but honestly you don't need any special tools short of the e16 torx bit which isn't all that common for people to have. I went ahead and bought a pulley wrench but only used it once, then realized I didn't need it. Torque on the intake sprockets is pretty low. Accessory belt pulleys are all pretty easy to get off without a pulley wrench, plenty of writeups around on that.

Now I don't mean to underplay the difficulty of this replacement. If you don't understand timing you run the risk of bending valves. As far as time to replace it all goes, I probably spent a solid 2 days total on it spread over 2+ months. Probably 3 or 4 hours of just cleaning the old gasket maker off, stuff is a mess and you don't want to leave bits inside the engine.

UltraMaroon I still intend to ship you my old sprockets once I get this thing fully functioning.

[Jamestl]

Originally Posted by EigenGuy

1) I had P0016 come in while data logging for a Delicious Flash and Go tune as I have a C30 JR supercharger. In order to data log, they wanted me to make multiple 3000-redline pulls. This tells me that I may have actually pushed wear particles into the VVT sprocket close clearances. I cleared the code that day with my ECUtek, then it came back the second time I drove the car (as it's programmed to do). I then aborted the Delicious tuning and re-flashed the CARB legal JR tune. I think it was the third time I cleared P0016, both P0016 and P0018 came in. This wasn't out of negligence as I was working through oil changes, OCV swaps, sensor swaps, sensor shims, jdl UEL header removal, and an ECM change. The issue began in August, so I've essentially been in limp mode since then, only driving the car when I absolutely have to.

2) From August to about a week ago, the engine showed zero symptoms other than limp mode. Even after clearing the code, the next drive always felt normal. Oil temps were all fine. I wish I had an oil pressure gauge.

3) Engine felt pretty normal, maybe a slight idle drop but nothing I would be concerned about. Neal at The Racers Line in Concord CA said he has seen engine fires from this issue, so I was very light on the throttle when I did drive it.

4) Last week I was driving in limp mode and the engine would fall to about 250 rpms when approaching a stop light. After a second or two, it would either die or ramp back up to 500 rpm just to fall again. Above idle, it seemed to run fine, but then again I was trying to keep it under 3000 rpm.

I've been busy with work so I haven't had time to dive into this thing yet. Frankly I was hoping someone would find the root cause on this thread so I know what to look for. I have a 2013 that's way out of warranty and the supercharger is still installed. I don't necessarily trust the dealership so I'd really like to leave the charger on the car and solve this myself.

Where are you guys finding replacement sprocket assemblies for $160? Are they used? parts.subaru.com is showing something like $600. Also the shop manual calls for unique pullers for each pulley in order to pull the timing cover. Has anyone done this job with regular pullers?

Thank you for all the details. So replacing the ECM didn't help solve the problem even temporarily? I was under the impression that it did somehow. My mistake.

[Jamestl]

So an update on my car. First a little history:

1) code came up around late November.
2) switched OCVs. Did not fix
3) switched camshaft position sensors. It did work... for about four weeks
4) bought new position sensor thinking maybe the one with the original warning was fucked.
5) new position sensor didn’t so shit
6) bought used ECM off of eBay. Replaced yesterday and so far so good.

I’m hoping what tripped the original signal was the position sensor. Btw those can be had for less tha 25 each new on eBay. Just buy the Mitsubishi one that’s not Toyota or suburu. They are the same damn thing except one is half the price (literally the old ones I pulled off had the three star logo and looked exactly he same)

Also if you do replace the ECM - the instructions posted was spot on, except when I looped the pins and turned on the car the check engine light was blinking then whole way. I still let it do it’s thing for about forty minutes but wasn’t sure when it would finish. Just FYI as this was not as described in the procedures.