Does any UEL come close to the Ace header gains?

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

I don't know. You're basically saying that for 750$ there is something else that you could do that will get you more than that 8whp.
I think that 750$ for 8 whp is really good on this car. Apart from a E85 flexfuel tune (which a lot of people don't have access to), I don't think there is anything that you can do that will get you that 8hp with your 750$.

No that's not what I'm basically saying.

I'll restate for you. To the DD weekend warrior, 8 WHP might not be worth the extra money. To a competitor with a giant budget it might. Make sense?

[churchx]

DAEMANO: to the DD weekend warrior even stock power might be sufficient with all "track-budget" going to tires/fuel/pads & rotors/for track. For season - maybe more then what even most costly header costs. If one wishes for more performance i find it hard to draw "right budget"/"right performance gains" to stop. One can go forced induction, one can go for Ace's, one can go for other well known like Tomei/OFH/JDL/PTuning, one can get cheap Gruppe S, one can get cheapest found ebay one, one can puncture out with screwdriver cat in stock headers, one can stay stock. Where to drive line for "best chosen budget limit" or "best price/performancy" or "best for purpose"? To each his own and there is no direct relation between chosen budget and actual use. I'm sure that among ace customers there might be even ones never taking car to track.
To me if one doesn't forget to incorporate for apples to apples comparison also overpipe price in what other non knock-off headers cost, that price difference doesn't seem THAT big of. And to get best product there always been some extra premium to pay.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by churchx

DAEMANO: to the DD weekend warrior even stock power might be sufficient with all "track-budget" going to tires/fuel/pads & rotors/for track. For season - maybe more then what even most costly header costs. If one wishes for more performance i find it hard to draw "right budget"/"right performance gains" to stop. One can go forced induction, one can go for Ace's, one can go for other well known like Tomei/OFH/JDL/PTuning, one can get cheap Gruppe S, one can get cheapest ebay one, one can puncture out with screwdriver cat in stock headers, one can stay stock. Where to drive line for "best chosen budget limit" or "best price/performancy" or "best for purpose"? To each his own and there is no direct relation between chosen budget and actual use. I'm sure that among ace customers there might be even ones never taking car to track.

Glad we agree.

[nikitopo]

Track budget and options are also very dependent in which category you want to join.

[Trueweltall]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Try stirring syrup at 60F, 70F, and 80F. Let me know if you can feel a difference.

Alternatively, try squeezing syrup out of a bottle. Microwave the bottle 15 seconds, and try it again. Rinse and repeat.

And my(last) question goes unanswered.

[redhalo]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

And my(last) question goes unanswered.

http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2015/0...-engine-power/

The thinner the oil the less hp it robs. I don't think anyone can provide you a magic number. Oil with 0 resistance would free up the most?

[Trueweltall]

Originally Posted by redhalo

http://www.eatonbalancing.com/2015/0...-engine-power/

The thinner the oil the less hp it robs. I don't think anyone can provide you a magic number. Oil with 0 resistance would free up the most?

If I make a statement saying my oil was under cooled and I made less power because of it that would mean usually that I have hard data to back that claim up. IE this was the under cooled temp where I made less power, here is the dyno where I made the most power because my oil was up to temperature.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

I don't know. You're basically saying that for 750$ there is something else that you could do that will get you more than that 8whp.
I think that 750$ for 8 whp is really good on this car. Apart from a E85 flexfuel tune (which a lot of people don't have access to), I don't think there is anything that you can do that will get you that 8hp with your 750$.

I see more like 15hp improvement across quite a wide range on 91 octane (well, assuming OFT was on Cali 91, and it may have been on something better...) for that extra $750. And to be fair, we probably can only call it 'up to'... Put another way, it's a somewhat fuzzy ~10% better for $750.

Of course, I'm looking at improvement over baseline, not absolute peak power on two totally different cars.

Also, e85 is off the table for other reasons than availability for things like an STX build. It's a pity, but word is this car is WHY it's no longer legal...

I think the answer to the OP's question remains "No" under all circumstances, but hey.

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

If I make a statement saying my oil was under cooled and I made less power because of it that would mean usually that I have hard data to back that claim up. IE this was the under cooled temp where I made less power, here is the dyno where I made the most power because my oil was up to temperature.

The way I understand it CSG_Mike made this statement because some people are wondering if he had any other mods that may explain why he had such an impressive gain. So for the sake of transparency he said he had an oil cooler, but that if the oil cooler had any effect it was reducing the HP because the oil was overcooled. I don't think he was saying it had a major impact, just that in theory it could only have a negative impact on results.

[redhalo]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

If I make a statement saying my oil was under cooled and I made less power because of it that would mean usually that I have hard data to back that claim up. IE this was the under cooled temp where I made less power, here is the dyno where I made the most power because my oil was up to temperature.

Or, you know, perhaps he was extrapolating based on known hard science since before the invention of the combustible engine to make a point that the mods weren't artificially boosting the dyno that he did show you?

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

No that's not what I'm basically saying.

I'll restate for you. To the DD weekend warrior, 8 WHP might not be worth the extra money. To a competitor with a giant budget it might. Make sense?

Ok, I tought you meant that someone should invest the extra money elsewhere to get more HP.
If someone don't have a specific HP goal in mind, or a modest goal, then yes buying a mid-level headers and tune may well be all the he need.
But for some people, if you're changing the header, you may as well try to get the most bang for your buck.
So yes, it will depends what's your goal.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

I don't know. You're basically saying that for 750$ there is something else that you could do that will get you more than that 8whp.
I think that 750$ for 8 whp is really good on this car. Apart from a E85 flexfuel tune (which a lot of people don't have access to), I don't think there is anything that you can do that will get you that 8hp with your 750$.

It could buy you 40 gallons of race fuel.... which is VERY expensive horsepower (and you'd still need a tune for it).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Trueweltall

If I make a statement saying my oil was under cooled and I made less power because of it that would mean usually that I have hard data to back that claim up. IE this was the under cooled temp where I made less power, here is the dyno where I made the most power because my oil was up to temperature.

If you pay for my dyno time, I'll gladly provide you with the data you requested. I won't even count the time it takes to put the car in that form.

[Trueweltall]

LOL.