left foot braking transitions

[Jyn]

Hey guys, I'm really set on keeping my bad habits. Please do not try to convince me otherwise. Just tell me what I want to hear so I can keep my bad habits. Thanks.

This thread, summarized.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i posted here because it was the closest thing on this website to any kind of "skills" section. which seems to not actually be a thing people study for cars? it sounds more and more like car drivers just go get in a car and fuck around until something happens

There is nothing wrong with looking to improving your skills. The problem is how and where you use those skills. The public street is not a place to be racing. LFB is a skill used in racing, to cut times on lap times. It has no place whatsoever in public roads. It will not make you safer, it will not help avoid accidents. Thats why this debate got derailed so much, at least thats what I can see from reading most of the comments, as they are either aimed at autocrossing and time attack or aimed at you doing LFB on public streets.

[Jyn]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

There is nothing wrong with looking to improving your skills. The problem is how and where you use those skills. The public street is not a place to be racing. LFB is a skill used in racing, to cut times on lap times. It has no place whatsoever in public roads. It will not make you safer, it will not help avoid accidents. Thats why this debate got derailed so much, at least thats what I can see from reading most of the comments, as they are either aimed at autocrossing and time attack or aimed at you doing LFB on public streets.

The latest SpeedSecrets podcast, they speak about practicing LFB on the street first. In fact, every instructor I've had has suggested starting to practice heel-toe and LFB on the street, in a controlled environment.

Stand still traffic or approaching a red light are great places to begin practicing. I understand your sentiment, but there is a time a place that is safe to practice.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Azzudien

Ask the person behind you on the street how great a driver you are when you accidentally put to much pressure on the brake pedal using your left foot learning this.

Dang... how did we ever learn to drive with our right foot? :P

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i posted here because it was the closest thing on this website to any kind of "skills" section. which seems to not actually be a thing people study for cars? it sounds more and more like car drivers just go get in a car and fuck around until something happens

d'aww don't be bitter about it

A lot of us put a lot of thought into it, that's why you got so many responses so quickly many of which are strongly opinionated. (and in hindsight waaaaay waaaay waaay better than if you had posted in general, this would be a 12 page shitshow if you had put it there)

Keep practicing LFB on the street, if you ever care about using it to go faster smoothness will be the key to success, not speed to the pedal.

Never expect it to prevent an accident, it won't, you will via awareness of your surroundings and anticipation of what will happen up ahead, to your left, to your right, and behind you. And like others have said, if you slam on the brakes too quick you end up getting rear ended, the 86 is light and it stops quick, the F150 following you doesn't have a chance of stopping in time.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

d'aww don't be bitter about it

A lot of us put a lot of thought into it, that's why you got so many responses so quickly many of which are strongly opinionated. (and in hindsight waaaaay waaaay waaay better than if you had posted in general, this would be a 12 page shitshow if you had put it there)

Keep practicing LFB on the street, if you ever care about using it to go faster smoothness will be the key to success, not speed to the pedal.

Never expect it to prevent an accident, it won't, you will via awareness of your surroundings and anticipation of what will happen up ahead, to your left, to your right, and behind you. And like others have said, if you slam on the brakes too quick you end up getting rear ended, the 86 is light and it stops quick, the F150 following you doesn't have a chance of stopping in time.

like you're saying, it's not just how quickly you get to brake. like you said being smooth is the focus when you're worrying about grip. we all know this, right? from what i've experienced with my own shitty feet -- which keep in mind have spent more time shifting gears than they have used a clutch-- i can more smoothly transition from full gas to full brake by using lfb. so that's the route i'm pursing.


I think it was actually someone on this forum that suggest i learn to lfb after my last track day, the track was repaved and had no grip and i was struggling to get the front to turn in and not just continually understeer through the turn so actually a few people said try using lfb to overlap your transitions leaving the shorter braking zones and if you start getting understeer when you're wide-open in a turn to use a little bit of lfb instead of less throttle which sorta unbalances the rear... so i tried it in the videogames.... definitely works in the videogames... wide open starting to understeer, just a light drag on the brake and the front comes right around with the rear still nicely planted. so i decided i'd try to learn in the car. read a bunch and basically everyone says to start on the street in safe places, or as a kid in a kart. well im not a kid in a kart, so when i first started trying to LFB was approaching an empty intersection that i needed to stop at... pop it to neutral and lfb to a stop... no big deal... would find myself in the middle of nowhere practicing harder left-foot braking in neutral... then started integrating it into small slow-downs before turns where i wouldn't shift... it all feels natural after a bit. sometimes when i get bored i go cruise the local mountains (slow) and started using lfb there since if you're just cruising you can leave it in 2nd or 3rd the whole time. it feels natural to me now. so i find myself using my left foot more and more. which means i rarely find myself in these situations where i unexpectedly need to brake further than i thought i would. not a big deal... switch feet while braking (i've practiced this near threshold braking too-- again in the middle of nowhere) and use the clutch with the left foot and give the throttle a blip with the right heel and shift it. or put it in neutral if you want. not a big deal. i do it just fine. but i ran a half marathon last weekend and i noticed having to pick up my foot when moving over to the clutch was painful and annoying and noticed it would probably be easier to LFB in basically every way if the brake pedal was just a little wider... my left foot could stay further to the left and it wouldn't be such an annoying transition to move to the clutch, and there would also be plenty of room for transitioning which foot is using the brake... i donno. in my mind, now the brake and the throttle are two independent things again like a motorcycle. this makes more sense to me. i've overlapped inputs on bikes for years... it just makes sense to me. on a motorcycle you can't just slam to full brake. you would bottom out the forks and the front tire would go sliding and you would say goodbye to your ride... one way is a smooth application ... but that can take time. another way is to set the front down with a little front brake while you're still on the throttle, so when you do the transition it's already loaded and you don't slam into the endstops and throw your front wheel out the side.

[strat61caster]

@alex.s it sounds like you're following the same path many of us would follow, we all just went WTF in unison when you decided to focus on accident avoidance with lfb.

Keep on keeping on buddy

[alex.s]

so... how about them wider pedals? anyone got one? can i just put on the automatic transmission version brake pedal? or do i have to move my clutch pedal to make room or something? i couldn't find any aftermarket pedals that were between the two sizes

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

so... how about them wider pedals? anyone got one? can i just put on the automatic transmission version brake pedal? or do i have to move my clutch pedal to make room or something? i couldn't find any aftermarket pedals that were between the two sizes

I tried a quick seach and only found out about wider accelerator pedal, like the SRP or the cusco. Velox makes a relocating kit to move the accelerator pedal (up and towards the brake I think). I have the SRP pedal and its surprinsingly easy to install, following the same "style" of install, you could probably either fabricate or extend an already existing brake pedal to suit your needs. SRP pedal set for reference.

[CSG Mike]

@alex.s when are you gonna join us at 86cup?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by alex.s

hey yall. i'm new to left foot braking.

i know people say don't use it on a corner you'll have to downshift on, but i've started left-foot-braking 100% of the time because it makes more sense in my head... the problem comes when i need to emergency brake past a gear when i start braking from the left foot... what winds up happening is the brake pedal is not wide enough to have both my feet on it so i have to actually keep both my feet rotated at 45* angles in order to fit both of them on the brake pedal. which works out for the right foot since that's how i heel-toe, but it's pretty awkard getting the left foot back to the clutch from having my left heel all the way against my right heel... does anyone else actually do this mid-brake foot transition? do you just get a wider brake pedal? do you need to move the other pedals at all? any suggestions for wider brake pedals?

Just no...

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@alex.s when are you gonna join us at 86cup?

I was at the last buttonwillow day...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by alex.s

I was at the last buttonwillow day...

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Oops.

I kept getting paged so I didnt really have any time to talk to anyone

[alex.s]

yeah, also i typically don't talk very much in person. and look very generic. so people don't really notice me. i bought a can of motul from someone right next to you near the garages.