How to run E85 on stock 86 BRZ FRS with OFT tune

[theadmiral976]

Originally Posted by MileMonger

Thanks for your response. That's one of my guesses too, although when I filled up, the needle was just underneath the E line. The other guess would be that it learned 93 and is now hitting E85 and has to learn that. I watched them for a while and after about 3 miles my stft started rising higher and higher. Then quickly going back down. A few minutes later my ltft started to hold at around 2, then 4. It remained like this for a couple more miles, so I stopped and flashed, since for the first 3 it mostly held around 0.

UPDATE: I just ran another datalog and the noise was present: http://datazap.me/u/milemonger/e85-a...&data=1-4-9-10

Here's a video I took at the end of it as well. Didn't really have a chance to rev any higher and was a bit hesitant to anyway... The noise can be heard in the video, though it's a bit louder in person.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/XS3Xwv4m2m4

Thanks a lot!

There is a lot of piping between the fuel tank and the injectors (i.e. lots of places for 93 to be lurking after filling up with E85). It definitely takes 3-5 miles for residuals to mix in the tank and the 93 in the lines to be used up. In my experience, when switching maps manually, I usually wait until the STFTs jump +20 or so. There can be some "hopping" like you described, but even +/-10 is sometimes seen within one fuel tank depending on additives and impurities. It can be hard to wait as the STFTs start jumping, but so long as you drive carefully (under 4k rpm, etc.), you will be okay to wait until the STFTs clearly jump >20.

Also, forgot to see where you are from, but depending on where you live, at this time of year E85 is usually closer to E55-65 because of the cold temperatures. And yes, I know you said that the Shell station claimed E70 or greater - they have been known to lie. The Shell station across from my house has those same stickers but when I fill up from there, my EtOH content analyzer states E62 or so.

[MileMonger]

Great to know, thanks. I looked around a bit but didn't find how high the stft parameters should go before switching over. Since my LTFT was so stable around 0 at first, I thought a stable +4 after about 5 miles was enough. Should have kept going longer, since I think I could have gone at least 10 more miles on the 93 I had left.

I'm not surprised the gas stations would lie. I'm in South Florida actually, and though it's been a tiny bit colder, I wouldn't think winter blends would be necessary, but who knows.

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EDIT: I meant the LTFT was stable at 0, then at +4. My STFT was hovering around +14 when I switched over.

[MileMonger]

Hi everyone,

I'm finally on my second tank of E85 but see no improvements so far. The only difference I see is that now my LTFT is between 10% and 13% at idle, with intake temps between 107° and 111°. Is this due to the high temps, or could it be low ethanol content?

The LTFT is between 1 and 6% while in motion, mostly hovering around 2% - 3.5%.

I reflashed the EL E85 tune and after taking it easy for 15 miles it showed no change.

Thanks!

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[steve99]

Don't worry if the LTFT is a little high at idle, as long as it low once you off idle and through the rpm range its ok.


If you want to fix the idle ltft look at the LTFT values at idle and the maf volts where the ltft is high.


If the mafv = say 0.2 and the ltft is say -10% then remove 10% from the maf g/s flow numbers in the maf cells at 0.2v and the cells either side


if it was +10% then add 10% to the maf flow values

[MileMonger]

Originally Posted by steve99

Don't worry if the LTFT is a little high at idle, as long as it low once you off idle and through the rpm range its ok.


If you want to fix the idle ltft look at the LTFT values at idle and the maf volts where the ltft is high.


If the mafv = say 0.2 and the ltft is say -10% then remove 10% from the maf g/s flow numbers in the maf cells at 0.2v and the cells either side


if it was +10% then add 10% to the maf flow values

Thanks Steve99! I read about the high LTFT during idle being normal earlier in this thread, just seemed strange it wasn't as high as often during my first tank of e85. Also the LTFT ended up constantly between 4-6% in motion through tank 2.

My main concerns are still the loud engine noise between 2500-3200 rpms, and the lack of any noticeable power increase. I flashed back to the OFS 93 octane tune and can confirm the car feels much smoother, shifting is much easier, and there's no loud noise during that rpm range. Is this normal? Shouldn't E85 be smoother than 93?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by MileMonger

Thanks Steve99! I read about the high LTFT during idle being normal earlier in this thread, just seemed strange it wasn't as high as often during my first tank of e85. Also the LTFT ended up constantly between 4-6% in motion through tank 2.

My main concerns are still the loud engine noise between 2500-3200 rpms, and the lack of any noticeable power increase. I flashed back to the OFS 93 octane tune and can confirm the car feels much smoother, shifting is much easier, and there's no loud noise during that rpm range. Is this normal? Shouldn't E85 be smoother than 93?

You shouldn't get any more noise from the E85 tune than the petrol tune, oft EL header tunes will make a raspy noise 3000-4000, but the UEL header tunes will not due different cam timings.


maybe overpipe or exhaust hitting on chassis ??


Check your AFR on the E85 tune upper rpm afr should be around 12-12.3 if its way rich like in the mid/low 11 than it will be down on power

[Slowfrs]

Hi,

I just started running e85 in my car and I'm concerned about when to change my oil. I usually change it around 5k miles just to be safe on 91 oct and I'm wondering when should start changing my oil since I'm using e85 now?

[MileMonger]

Originally Posted by steve99

You shouldn't get any more noise from the E85 tune than the petrol tune, oft EL header tunes will make a raspy noise 3000-4000, but the UEL header tunes will not due different cam timings.


maybe overpipe or exhaust hitting on chassis ??


Check your AFR on the E85 tune upper rpm afr should be around 12-12.3 if its way rich like in the mid/low 11 than it will be down on power

Hey Steve,

Here are two logs from earlier:

http://www.datazap.me/u/milemonger/e...zoom=1746-3303

http://datazap.me/u/milemonger/e85-a...&data=1-4-9-10

On the first one I see my AFR at 19 at 4700 rpm...

The second I see it between 14-17 on the higher rpm ranges of that log.

Thanks for your time!

[MileMonger]

Originally Posted by Slowfrs

Hi,

I just started running e85 in my car and I'm concerned about when to change my oil. I usually change it around 5k miles just to be safe on 91 oct and I'm wondering when should start changing my oil since I'm using e85 now?

Hey there!

This is from the first post:

Originally Posted by steve99

If you are going to run E85 long term you should make sure your oil is E85 compatible (SN or GF-5 rated oils are generally Bio-fuel E85 compatible), and change your oil twice as often if your paranoid. If you get oil analysis done and your not showing fuel dilution you may be able to run standard oil change intervals, im just being safe here.

see here http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

You may consider running something similar to Lucas Ethanol Treatment.

Chances are you'll be fine, but I'd do the oil analysis a couple of times before keeping it long-term, then another one every few oil changes.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by MileMonger

Hey Steve,

Here are two logs from earlier:

http://www.datazap.me/u/milemonger/e...zoom=1746-3303

http://datazap.me/u/milemonger/e85-a...&data=1-4-9-10

On the first one I see my AFR at 19 at 4700 rpm...

The second I see it between 14-17 on the higher rpm ranges of that log.

Thanks for your time!

AFR will go to like 20 when your completely off the throttle as injectors shut off to save fuel, this is normal.


all looks ok from what I can see ltft is ok


you need to do a full throttle run in say second or third from 2000 to redline


take out the vvt intake and vvt exhaust parameters in your logs and substiture Commanded AFR and FLKC

[MileMonger]

Thanks Steve, sorry for the delay. I finally ran down my 93 but I just realized I left my OFT in my bag at my friend's house... Should be able to get this going again by Monday.

[alestrada]

I have some minor concerns, more so I looked around and can not find a solid answer. Attached is a Data Log that shows some casual cruising. After the learning process, knocking has virtually disappeared during cruising and the Advance Multiplier has also settled at 1. I have yet to go WOT because looking at my LTFT I have been gradually approaching -10%. I also understand that Idle LTFT is not a reliable figure, however I sit a lot closer to 0%. Another concern is that in some cases, the AFR is not within 1% of my Command AFR in some areas of acceleration with the exception of when I am shifting gears which is normal. Can someone take a look at my DataZip and let me know what they think? Things I have yet to do, scale my MAF while on Petrol and adjust any timing (even though it has been recommended to do since the OFT e85 Stage 2 is only recommended to be used with e60-90). Thanks in advance.

http://datazap.me/u/alestrada/cruise...&solo=13&hg=11

[HLHachiRoku]

Originally Posted by alestrada

I have some minor concerns, more so I looked around and can not find a solid answer. Attached is a Data Log that shows some casual cruising. After the learning process, knocking has virtually disappeared during cruising and the Advance Multiplier has also settled at 1. I have yet to go WOT because looking at my LTFT I have been gradually approaching -10%. I also understand that Idle LTFT is not a reliable figure, however I sit a lot closer to 0%. Another concern is that in some cases, the AFR is not within 1% of my Command AFR in some areas of acceleration with the exception of when I am shifting gears which is normal. Can someone take a look at my DataZip and let me know what they think? Things I have yet to do, scale my MAF while on Petrol and adjust any timing (even though it has been recommended to do since the OFT e85 Stage 2 is only recommended to be used with e60-90). Thanks in advance.

http://datazap.me/u/alestrada/cruise...&solo=13&hg=11

If you are running the e85 map you will be 8-17% negative in lftf always unless you go and physically change the tunes fueling/timing. The longer the computer learns the tune the more negative you will see. The reason being is our e85 is no longer that. Its about 51%-61%. the system sees you running richer now duel to the petrol mixture being higher. You can get a flexfuel kit or change the tune or leave the tune alone and run with it if you arent getting knock. I have been working on my own tune for the new "flex fuel" we have here and its pretty good so far still needs a bit of tweaking here and there as its getting much warmer out. Iam still at 1 and WOT pulls are there till redline.

If you just flashed you need to drive more and data log more time. There is only 1 possible knock that i saw on that log. At work so its hard to see on my phone, lol. I usally log after flash only to see if its bad knock or knock and if its bad or alot i change if none or hardly any i let the computer learn and log. I then take the logs after 100 miles or so and then look at flkc and knock correction if knock adjust accordingly. The computer makes quite a bit of adjustments on its own as it learns, why you can run the new flexfuel on the e85 map as its learning the. Ew fuel curve its taking out the unnesscary fuel thats being added.

[alestrada]

Originally Posted by HLHachiRoku

If you are running the e85 map you will be 8-17% negative in lftf always unless you go and physically change the tunes fueling/timing. The longer the computer learns the tune the more negative you will see. The reason being is our e85 is no longer that. Its about 51%-61%. the system sees you running richer now duel to the petrol mixture being higher. You can get a flexfuel kit or change the tune or leave the tune alone and run with it if you arent getting knock. I have been working on my own tune for the new "flex fuel" we have here and its pretty good so far still needs a bit of tweaking here and there as its getting much warmer out. Iam still at 1 and WOT pulls are there till redline.

If you just flashed you need to drive more and data log more time. There is only 1 possible knock that i saw on that log. At work so its hard to see on my phone, lol. I usally log after flash only to see if its bad knock or knock and if its bad or alot i change if none or hardly any i let the computer learn and log. I then take the logs after 100 miles or so and then look at flkc and knock correction if knock adjust accordingly. The computer makes quite a bit of adjustments on its own as it learns, why you can run the new flexfuel on the e85 map as its learning the. Ew fuel curve its taking out the unnesscary fuel thats being added.

Thanks, that does make a lot of sense, I have yet to log a WOT, but when I did do one my Advance Multiplier did dip to .88, so I've been going easy to let it do some more learning, it's slowly climbing back to 1, however, it almost seems like the ecu is definitely not liking the warmer temp here in AZ. So I'm just going to let it do its thing and start tweaking some timing here in there on my next tank.