Gauging interest in "Mild upgrade" aka OEM+ spring/shock combo

[mav1178]

Are users interested in spring/shock upgrades that are more aggressive than stock but better ride quality?

Many folks out there get springs but retain the stock shocks, and once you get past $600-700 then lower end coilovers are usually considered first.

A few of us run the popular RCE Bilstein/spring combo but that gets close to the $1000 mark...

There's a handful of Japanese manufacturers that offer a complete spring/shock combo, but is this something people would actually be interested in buying if available? A lot of lookers but no one actually considering it.

[MurderousPandas]

Spring setups are good for street use as they usually aren't too low or too stiff. I run springs on my stock struts, i thought about switching the struts but i don't want to spend the money. In the long run i plan to racecar the FRS, so i'm using springs as a medium between stock and racecar, but if i had to swap the struts for whatever reason, i'd just switch to coilovers. No one seems worried about struts, everyone wants low and camber adjustability. Those who are worried about struts probably track their car and probably have coils. There's not a market/demand for struts like there is for springs and camber bolts.

"Chasing speed with patience"

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by MurderousPandas

There's not a market/demand for struts like there is for springs and camber bolts.

While true, this is also because the car is new.

I dealt (and still deal) with the 240SX market... back in the day, Tokico Blues were the most popular thing to modify because people would have blown stock shocks after 5-10 years of the car being on the market.

Many people still want to retain stock ride quality or comfort, but once they find out how much stock shocks cost, they'd balk and get aftermarket...

It ultimately comes down to price, warranty, and support.

-alex

[strat61caster]

Tough sell for me, would need to convince me that service, support, and availability would match Bilstein and Koni, even if I never need it. FWIW I am absolutely considering a lowering spring/damper combo in approximately 2-3 years after I've had my fill of competitively autocrossing my 86. But I may be looking for something more aggressive and customizable than this offering and as such outside the target market. RCE Yellows/Tarmacs, TRD/Eibach, STI Pink, & Swift are all on my radar along with a Bilstein or Koni damper.

The Tokico comparison makes a ton of sense, when I was looking at picking up an older Mazda or Toyota (not too long ago, RX-7, MX-5, MR2, Protege's) they were typically the go-to for someone who wanted OE-like performance above no-name replacements, cheaper than the stealership, and meanwhile Koni/Bilstein options were valved more aggressively and priced noticeably higher.

[mav1178]

Basically I'm working on a deal to bring in Showa Shocks with matching lowering springs.

Trying to keep it below $1000. The "OEM replacement" version is probably around $800, the Sport version is probably $1000.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by mav1178

While true, this is also because the car is new.

I dealt (and still deal) with the 240SX market... back in the day, Tokico Blues were the most popular thing to modify because people would have blown stock shocks after 5-10 years of the car being on the market.

Many people still want to retain stock ride quality or comfort, but once they find out how much stock shocks cost, they'd balk and get aftermarket...

It ultimately comes down to price, warranty, and support.

-alex

You pretty much answered your own question..

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by solidONE

You pretty much answered your own question..

and yet we are in 2017 and coming up on 5 years since the first introduction of the car, and many 2013/2014 cars are long out of warranty.

I didn't answer my own question because I wasn't questioning the used car and OEM replacement parts market. I'm more interested in knowing what interest, if any, people have in mild upgrades vs going to the next step up, aka entry level coilovers.

-alex

[solidONE]

I think as this car get older there would be more and more interests in products like that. As of now the guys that have blown shocks likely got there from beating on them with "performance driving" so they'd more likely be looking for performance upgrade as replacement.

Also would depend on price point, I'd say. There's always people looking for affordable replacement of old or damaged OE level parts such as collision repair stuff. If you want to start marketing "OE replacement" quality stuff right now that's probably where you'd look to sell. Collision repair.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Basically I'm working on a deal to bring in Showa Shocks with matching lowering springs.

Trying to keep it below $1000. The "OEM replacement" version is probably around $800, the Sport version is probably $1000.

Fortune Auto 500s are what, $1000? IMO you're trying to win on a very thin slice of the market.

You'll sell to the person who wants a mild drop and (uncommonly) understands that a shock properly matching the spring will probably be better than a low end coilover. The average person in this price range is going to compare your product to the $800-$1000 coilover segment that gives you:
- ride height adjustability
- damping adjustability (even if it's shit)
- smaller springs (to fit larger wheels)
- bling factor (yo bruh I bought coils, howbowdah #lit)

The truth is, drop springs serve people who want a small drop and are willing to sacrifice some optimization/performance in their setup for price and ease of reuse with OEM components. And unfortunately, low end coilover prices are dirt cheap these days. Lastly, this car isn't like cars of yesteryear that damn near had a 4x4 stance until you lowered them, we're already pretty damn low IMO.

It's a great idea but will probably end up as too much of a niche.

[ryoma]

TBH, the typical owner of our platform will most likely just be buying the cheap coilovers due to the adjustments they offer. they could care less about the ride quality and mistakenly think that stiffer is always better.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Fortune Auto 500s are what, $1000? IMO you're trying to win on a very thin slice of the market.

You'll sell to the person who wants a mild drop and (uncommonly) understands that a shock properly matching the spring will probably be better than a low end coilover. The average person in this price range is going to compare your product to the $800-$1000 coilover segment that gives you:
- ride height adjustability
- damping adjustability (even if it's shit)
- smaller springs (to fit larger wheels)
- bling factor (yo bruh I bought coils, howbowdah #lit)

The truth is, drop springs serve people who want a small drop and are willing to sacrifice some optimization/performance in their setup for price and ease of reuse with OEM components. And unfortunately, low end coilover prices are dirt cheap these days. Lastly, this car isn't like cars of yesteryear that damn near had a 4x4 stance until you lowered them, we're already pretty damn low IMO.

It's a great idea but will probably end up as too much of a niche.

I'm not looking for a niche, I'm just seeing what the average enthusiast would care about or consider.

Coilovers are nice, but the number 1 thing I do not see people discussing when it comes to coilovers is the fact that the perches come loose over time and you need to manually tighten or adjust it on a regular basis.

I mean, I'm not looking for a large bump in units. Moving 5 units in a year versus 0 in 2016 is better than nothing... and it probably takes a bit of end user education.

Thanks for pointing out the benefits. Ironically it's also a list I can attack low-end coilovers on.

Originally Posted by ryoma

TBH, the typical owner of our platform will most likely just be buying the cheap coilovers due to the adjustments they offer. they could care less about the ride quality and mistakenly think that stiffer is always better.

Is it that simple of an answer? There's more than 50,000 of these cars in the US and half of them aren't looking for coilovers.

There's over 30,000 cars alone in MY2013 which is a large enough market for me to consider.

[lbejosano]

Sounds like a great idea. I know at least two people that would be interested in this, one of which has been back and forth for the past few months debating springs/shocks or low end coilovers. This would have been something I was interested in when I first got the car as well.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[solidONE]

If you're talking about something that is similar to the OE Sachs damper option level of 'mild' upgrade (which I'd still consider as something like 'heavy duty" OE replacements) then I'd doubt folks will shell out that 1k asking price considering what is already available in the same price bracket. But, if you're talking about something that is a notch or two higher than a heavy duty OE replacement, like a monotube paired to some +5kg springs and a noticeable drop, good road manners and warranty for under 1K? Then shit.. I'd be interested in buying something like that.

How much are flex-z's? $800 w/6kg spring all around and extremely good road manners not to mention adjustable height and damping? How do you compete against that? lol

[ryoma]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Is it that simple of an answer? There's more than 50,000 of these cars in the US and half of them aren't looking for coilovers.

There's over 30,000 cars alone in MY2013 which is a large enough market for me to consider.

how do you know half of the owners are not looking for coilovers? I don't mean to down talk any owners but the majority I see at car meets do not know the differences between BC and Ohlins... they see coilovers as the stiffer the better, and the cheaper the better as long as they get the results they want. most of those owners are also not on the forums. with that mindset, I highly doubt they would spend more for a set of lowering springs/shocks than they would if they wanted your average BC, D2, Megan, etc.

however, this is all my opinion and I have not been to everywhere in the US so I don't know what it's like in other places. but as you said, selling a handful is better than selling nothing so that's also a good outlook to have. I just do not know if your option would be competitive in the market especially when you have not established a reputation yet for that combo package.