Setting Up Alignment for Daily Use

[cjd]

It's mostly toe that wears tires on the highway. Take the fun over keeping tires past their prime

[Lust]

Originally Posted by cjd

It's mostly toe that wears tires on the highway. Take the fun over keeping tires past their prime

Yea I think it was wonky toe + a lot of negative rear camber that killed my tires.



Here's my alignment sheet. Based off your guys' feedback, I am thinking to go -2.5F and -2R. Toe I'm still unsure.

[wparsons]

0 toe front, 1/16" toe in total rear.

[Lust]

Originally Posted by wparsons

0 toe front, 1/16" toe in total rear.

Ok cool thanks, that would be less than I'm running now correct? I can't math right now.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Lust

Ok cool thanks, that would be less than I'm running now correct? I can't math right now.

I think what you have is fine. 0.03/side is probably closer to 1/16 total.

It really may just be the camber plus miles not cornering at all. And 15k for a set of PSS doesn't sound bad at all. Get less fun tires if you want longer life. Your commute sounds like the right job for the stock tires to be honest.

[Lust]

Maybe I can ask this question on the same thread, what would be an ideal ride height for my setup? I feel like I'm a bit higher than most of the others with a similar setup. Thoughts?

[why?]

if your dding it that much you want to be a little higher.

[Alltezza]

I thought I'd come in, now. When I first turned on my car and started driving it.....damn was the car wobbly af. Also My steering wheel had to be turned slightly to the left to drive straight, and then my ABS and TC light came on lol I was freaking out but I figured it was because I most likely needed and alignment.

Anyways I finally got my alignment done....kinda LOL turns out I'm a dumbass and installed one of my coils wrong.....

The tech came out and wanted to talk to me and was like "Yeah I can't adjust your camber, one of the camber plate is wrong."

Basically my right coil is PERFECT but then my left is......yeah.





Well you live and you learn, to everyone installing coils for the first time....it should look exactly like the first picture above. Make sure you check the weather that it doesn't randomly rain and get cold.....damn it TN weather LOL.

Anyways here's my current alignment settings for now. I was basing it off of this thread, I don't know if I'll ever see a track.

Apparently one of my rear camber is maxed out and won't go more than -1

The Firestone guy was pretty nice, and I didn't have any issues with him, he said to come back after I take care of it and he'll set it up however I want it for the front.

Before


After

[jamal]

So the guy can't undo three nuts and rotate it the right direction while it's on the rack?


Every single alignment thread on the internet seems to come down to "find someone who knows what they are doing."

Also, did you have any specific settings in mind before the alignment?

[Alltezza]

Originally Posted by jamal

So the guy can't undo three nuts and rotate it the right direction while it's on the rack?


Every single alignment thread on the internet seems to come down to "find someone who knows what they are doing."

Also, did you have any specific settings in mind before the alignment?

Yeah I was a little....what's the word confused? Fine I'll own up that I may have installed it wrong, I wasn't gonna be an ass about it at Firestone.

I'll just lift the car up and fix it later. He did my rear though, but I was just confused on reading the paper saying my rear camber maxes out at -1?

I was going for a -2 Front Camber

-1.5, or -1.7 ish camber.

0 Toe front
1/16 Total Toe rear.

I was looking through a lot of thread posts about DD alignment settings.

So that's where I based it from, the guy didn't really touch the front that much because the camber plate was installed wrong. So I'll just fix it and bring it back. I got the life Time alignment plan or whatever from Firestone, I heard this particular was one good in my area and they were like 2 minutes from my house.

Also I guess since we're on this topic, explain to me like I'm 5, but why is it that most people prefer to run less camber in the rear compared to the front for DD? I didn't think much of it but I thought I'd ask. I'm still waiting for TN's great weather to figure out if it wants to be hot or cold, so I can finally drive the car when it's nice outside lol, so I'm still a bit unsure on what I'm looking for.

So far the car still drives nice and my steering is fixed, I don't have "turn" the steering wheel to drive straight anymore.

Edit: Other info.

SPC LCAs
Tein Flex Z
Lower an inch all around.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

Yeah I was a little....what's the word confused? Fine I'll own up that I may have installed it wrong, I wasn't gonna be an ass about it at Firestone.

Haha... oooops!

Also I guess since we're on this topic, explain to me like I'm 5, but why is it that most people prefer to run less camber in the rear compared to the front for DD?

It's because the rear has double wishbone suspension. The geometry of the 4-bar linkage is such that negative camber increases with compression. It's not that the rear has little negative camber, it's that with a McPherson strut, camber is static-ish. It's ok for street tuning where the general consensus is pushing into a ditch is better than swapping ends.

But to maintain a good contact patch in a high-g turn, that front end needs stupid level negative camber.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I got the life Time alignment plan or whatever from Firestone, I heard this particular was one good in my area and they were like 2 minutes from my house.

Also I guess since we're on this topic, explain to me like I'm 5, but why is it that most people prefer to run less camber in the rear compared to the front for DD?

I'd be surprised if they give you exactly what you want, a good shop will hit every number you request precisely, but it looks like they'll give you an alignment that's 'good enough' for a decent price, and they seem competent, it's just that for what you paid them they're not going to spend a half hour tinkering to get exactly what you ask for.

If you want it perfect, you'll have to go to a shop dedicated to performance cars and spend probably around $200, if not more. But it should be good for quite awhile.

ELI5: the front and rear suspension designs are different which means that the wheels need different amounts of camber for optimum grip.

Now I'm going to explain like you're 14 and interested:

Do you understand why camber is used? Quick and dirty: it's so you have the tire even with the ground during cornering to maximize contact patch and counteract body roll.

The 86's front suspension is Macpherson strut design, the rear suspension is multi-link design similar to a double wishbone. You can google both and read the wiki pages to understand the difference, they're rather good iirc.

MacPherson struts do not gain camber as they are compressed, that means that mid-corner the tire would not be angled optimally to get a good contact patch to the ground, therefore it needs a noticeable amount of static camber to get maximum grip mid-corner to counteract the car's body roll.

Double wishbone and multilink suspension designs are typically made to gain negative camber when the suspension is compressed. This means when you go into a corner and the car shifts it's weight the camber changes in a way that's advantageous for grip. Therefore you do not need large static camber to get maximum grip during corner as the car experiences body roll.

If you go read alignment threads for older subaru's they had struts in the rear and as such need large negative camber on both ends to handle well. Similar story for S2000 and Miata's which have double wishbones front/rear, they need less aggressive static camber and are often more closely matched front to rear.

BMW's and Porsche's and many other more economically oriented sporty cars use struts up front and multi-link rear and end up needing similar setups to the 86 with more camber up front than the rear.

[jamal]

Well you had more negative camber in the rear before he adjusted it, so by maxed out I would assume he means that is the lowest he could set it. It will obviously go farther toward negative camber since that is where it was when you brought it it.

The simplified story is that we want more camber up front because it improves cornering grip, and will result in better handling and balance. So less understeer at the limit because the front tires maintain better contact patch while you are cornering. This is even at pretty high numbers that we wouldn't want because they will reduce braking and wear out tires quickly.

If you care about how the car handles and drives it is absolutely worth finding a specialist shop to do your alignment. Preferably one with subaru experience.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

ELI5: the front and rear suspension designs are different which means that the wheels need different amounts of camber for optimum grip.

Yours is better.