Performance package first drive review

[trippinbillies40]

STI wheel option is same width/offset as the stock wheel and won't clear the brakes.

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

STI wheel option is same width/offset as the stock wheel and won't clear the brakes.

does not the STI have brembo's?

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

does not the STI have brembo's?

WRX STI does indeed have Brembos, but the "STI" wheels you can get for the BRZ are not the same exact wheels that come on an STI. Just similar styling for an alternative option.

[dowroa]

I believe the STi wheel option is also only a 7" rim. The PP wheel is a 17x7.5" (like the 04 STi wheels). You can easily put a 225 on there, which is ideal price and size for the street.

I would love to know the weight of those wheels as well.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by dowroa

I believe the STi wheel option is also only a 7" rim. The PP wheel is a 17x7.5" (like the 04 STi wheels). You can easily put a 225 on there, which is ideal price and size for the street.

I would love to know the weight of those wheels as well.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2844469

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2844469

Thank you, sir. I would thank you with the forum tools, but I am not at 10 posts yet. :|

- brian

[Twinz]

Re: the brakes.

In the 350Z community "Soft pedal" was a common problem for people who converted from standard brakes to the brembo's without upgrading the master cylinder. I don't know if the PP uses the same master cylinder as the standard brakes, but that's the first thing that came to mind. It was not a safety issue, the brakes worked fine, but the pedal just wasn't as firm.

Also, the brakes on my 16 FRS are about the same size as the brakes were on my much heavier 350Z. Better pads and high-temp brake fluid were all the Z needed to withstand extended abuse. I burned out the rubber dust boots on the single-piston calipers, but they still worked great.

I have yet to make the brakes on the FRS do any serious work (autocrossing doesn't get much heat in them) but I will be surprised if they don't hold up as well or better than the Z's brakes when I finally get a chance to make them do some work.

[dowroa]

While I don't disagree the brakes on the BRZ aren't adequate and have a large variety of cheaper pad options, the Brembo brakes with a larger heat sink should be very useful upgrade. Hammering the car at 20 mins sessions on some of the higher speed HPDEs in the US (ViR Full, Road Atlanta Full, etc), the brakes should prove their worth quickly without spreading.

The only real negative I see with the BRZ PP is the fact that STi pads are more expensive. However, it is a reused part, so blanks and pads are already available which is great.

With an oil cooler, better pads, and DOT 5.1 fluid, the BRZ with the performance pack should be ready to go.

Specifically to the whole package, I personally still believe that having a 17x7.5" rim cannot be overlooked. With a good summer tire size for the larger rim and some camber, the BRZ PP should be a really good track car almost right out of the box.

[Last Lemming Alive]

Hello Gents,


This is my first post but 4th Suby. I was an active member on NASIOC. I've owned 2006 WRX Limited, 2009 WRX, 2011 STI Limited and now the 2017 WRB BRZ Limited w/ PP. the BRZ is more fun than any of them with the except of off road where the STI is a blast and best at home.


Now I'm probably a bit older than most of you guys, so outright speed and HP is waaay over rated when you use a car for daily driving in a city. What I have found is that it is way more important how it makes you feel at low speed, and this car has gobs of tactile feel and responsiveness. And its NOT slow, it's just not blistering fast.


I get sick of the youngsters (probably not you guys since you own one or want to own one) saying its underpowered. When I hear that, I know I'm hearing from someone who is not very worldly in automotive terms. For God's sake that been the winning formula for Miatas for 20 years. I've owned plenty of cars (over 20 at least), and all of them except 2 have been performance cars to one degree or another. The BRZ is most similar to the RX8 I owned, but feels waaay faster due to the torque and gearing. But is also gratifying like my old '86 Porsche 911 and is a lot like my current '86 944 Turbo. The BRZ blows me away because its combines the best attributes of these cars in a simple well executed fashion.


I test drove the 370z the same day I test drove and bought my BRZ. Yes the Z is faster - but that's it. It feels like a boat - HEAVY. At slow speed it feels like my wife's old Infiniti G35 - sounds the same too, in other words boring. If I did a lot of highway driving I might pick on up. I drove the BRZ after the 370z and I knew in the first 20 feet it was the better car.


As for the PP I think its worth every cent. The Brembo brakes do not feel mushy, they feel better than the Brembos I had in my STI. The wheels look decent to, and the crinkle coat intake is back!! Looks great. The stereo, while nothing great, is way better than in any other Subaru car I have owned. I hear the new ones are much better. the 4.30 rear end ratio fits this car perfectly and response at low speeds is instant. I can not speak to the older 4.10 ratio since I never drove it, but I'm sure its good too. The seats are awesome, and in some ways better than the Focus ST Recaro seats. BTW that's the car I traded in for the BRZ. On that car I had the Mountune MR300 suspension and tune kit. The throttle in that car sucked bad. It was like an on off switch, the BRZ, being NA is so much more fun and controllable. I don't regret ridding myself of the Focus ST either!


Anyway just wanted to say hello! I'll try to post up pics later.

[dowroa]

Thanks for the information.

I wish the NASIOC/i-Club community had more active BRZ members.... but it appears that is not the case.

[Last Lemming Alive]

As promised

https://flic.kr/p/S8t76Y

https://flic.kr/p/S15Uaz

https://flic.kr/p/S15TJK

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by dowroa

The only real negative I see with the BRZ PP is the fact that STi pads are more expensive. However, it is a reused part, so blanks and pads are already available which is great.

They are ~10 lbs of added brake weight over stock. For those who can run the AP Sprint kit, it works out to a difference of ~30 lbs in brake weight.

The aftermarket kits also run a floating rotor (better tolerance for thermal stresses, better cooling, attract less heat into the wheel bearing) and use better iron.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by gtengr

They are ~10 lbs of added brake weight over stock. For those who can run the AP Sprint kit, it works out to a difference of ~30 lbs in brake weight.

The aftermarket kits also run a floating rotor (better tolerance for thermal stresses, better cooling, attract less heat into the wheel bearing) and use better iron.

Just so I understand correctly, the AP Racing Sprint Kit for the BRZ is 2,099USD , which is a front kit only with no cooling ducts. Is there a rear caliper for AP racing designed for the rears? I will see if I can find the quantified brake weight per side for Brembo, Stock and AP Racing.

Link: https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...0299brzfrsgt86

This kit does have great long-term advantages: great rotors, wide pad selection, better heat dissipation, lighter weight. Also, they are right down the road from me and I have always considered picking up a kit for any car I owned.

When you brought up "~10 lbs of added brake weight" are you including the front or front and rears? So, when the AP Racing Sprint kit is applied, is that ~30 lbs in brake weight compared to Sprint Front + OEM rear VS Brembo Front + Brembo Rear?

Still, I don't think the Brembos (or Performance Pack in totality) should be looked at as a totally negative option for the price. Or do you see it as such? i.e Stock + Pads or AP racing -- Brembo is the worst of all worlds?


Thanks for your time and input.

- brian

Originally Posted by IThinkIFindTheSourceForYourClaims

Endurance vs. Sprint System Comparison
Sprint system is roughly 10 lbs. lighter per corner than stock, while Endurance system is approximately 5 lbs. lighter per corner than stock
Endurance System comes with built-in provision for connecting brake ducts
Endurance system uses slightly larger disc, with a higher internal vane count
Aluminum hats on Endurance discs are floating, while hats on Sprint discs are bolted
Actual disc metallurgy the same for both kits, although spare discs for Sprint system are about $100 cheaper (each)...$200 less for the pair.
Slightly taller pads can be used on the Endurance package, giving greater pad volume and longer wear characteristics
Any pad that works in the Sprint System will also work in the Endurance package
Both kits will fit under certain 17" wheels, but neither will fit OEM wheels without a spacer. Wheel fitment templates available on our site.
Differences are in bold below:
Essex FT86 Competition Brake System Comparison Grid
Endurance System
Sprint System
$2,599.00
$2,099.00
Total system weight savings vs. OEM= 10 lbs.
Total system weight savings vs. OEM= 20 lbs.
Weight savings per front corner vs. OEM= 5 lbs.
Weight savings per front corner vs. OEM= 10 lbs.

With that stated, I think the PP has more value as I am pretty sure if the Brembos fit, they could later be upgraded to AP Racing calipers in the front (given the brake fluid volume ratio is the same as OEM) without having to get new wheels or spacers.

For a track rat (not just lightness for autoX, where I don't think I would change), I believe I would go with the endurance system for larger pad depth. At that point, the weight is less of a factor (5lbs v 10lbs).

Source for AP Racing's Design Choice: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=24

Originally Posted by JR@Essex

We looked at the possibility of a rear kit for these cars back in 2012 when we owned one. We've found the following to be true:

1. Performance- In terms of performance, the OEM rear brakes on USDM cars are more than adequate under just about all conditions. With a set of good pads, you can hammer them on a track all day when mated to the proper front brakes (our Essex/AP Racing Sprint Kit). That has been proven over and over again here on this forum, and on racetracks all over the world. That is the case even on forced induction cars putting out significantly more than OEM HP. We've had cars with our front kits and OEM rear brakes run Endurance races on a road course, Pikes Peak, Targa Newfoundland, etc., all without issue.

2. Weight- The OEM rear brakes are not that heavy. One of the key benefits of our front system is a huge unsprung weight reduction. There's just not nearly as much weight to be saved in the rear.

3. Cost- Most of our customers are far more interested in buying the absolute best front system available for $2k, but they're not terribly interested in spending another $2k for rears. In terms of choosing where to get your best bang-for-the-buck, it's far wiser to buy the best front system you can afford, rather than buying a lesser four wheel big brake kit. That is because the front brakes is where the car is lacking most. A rear BBK is much less critical on this car, and more of a 'nice-to-have,' rather than a necessity. With the rears you quickly hit a point of diminishing returns. You're not making the car much better for a substantial wad of cash.

Spending $2k for the convenience of faster pad changes isn't something most of our customers want to do. Also keep in mind that you aren't changing rear pads nearly as frequently as the fronts. Typically you're wearing out and swapping 3-4 sets of front pads for every set of rears, particularly when tracking the car. The front takes the bulk of the abuse, hence the wiser move to buy the best front BBK you can afford.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by dowroa

Just so I understand correctly, the AP Racing Sprint Kit for the BRZ is 2,099USD , which is a front kit only with no cooling ducts. Is there a rear caliper for AP racing designed for the rears?

Also consider that the AP kit will sell quickly in the classifieds, so it's really only costing you somewhere around $500 after you're done with it. Regarding the rear caliper, it's generally accepted that a rear kit is not necessary. I think it's reasonable to assume that is true, and if you're at the point where you do need a rear BBK (turbo, slicks, etc), the limits of an OE-style Brembo setup have also been surpassed.

Originally Posted by dowroa

When you brought up "~10 lbs of added brake weight" are you including the front or front and rears? So, when the AP Racing Sprint kit is applied, is that ~30 lbs in brake weight compared to Sprint Front + OEM rear VS Brembo Front + Brembo Rear?

Yes. I'm estimating the Brembo weight based on the Subaru technical document that describes all of the differences on the 2017 BRZ. It lists curb weights for the standard and PP, and then I subtracted what someone else posted for the PP wheel weights to determine the Brembos add ~10lbs. I'm assuming the Sachs are equal weight to the Showa shocks, which I don't think is unreasonable.

Originally Posted by dowroa

Still, I don't think the Brembos (or Performance Pack in totality) should be looked at as a totally negative option for the price. Or do you see it as such? i.e Stock + Pads or AP racing -- Brembo is the worst of all worlds?

I agree. I've qualified other posts on this with a sort of "I hate to be a negative Nancy but..." It is absolutely a good deal for what you get. Even if you don't want any of the parts it's worth it to get the option and sell them. I'd guess you can get $2k easily in the classifieds for the 4 wheel Brembos.

Originally Posted by dowroa

With that stated, I think the PP has more value as I am pretty sure if the Brembos fit, they could later be upgraded to AP Racing calipers in the front (given the brake fluid volume ratio is the same as OEM) without having to get new wheels or spacers.

It is for sure a personal decision. For me, ~30 lbs of brake weight (most of it in the front) is hard to ignore on this particular car.