Suspension newbie.

[FR-Sky]

"Cry once better than cry many times."

[SpeedStarOne]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Unless you're raising the car very high or running progressive springs, you're only changing preload on a helper spring (which has a negligible rate).

I generally prefer coilovers that are 1 way height adjustable, but that has more to do with what's available than the "feature" itself. Separate preload and ride height adjustability is very far down on my list of what I want on a coilover and when you look at almost all of the really good coilovers, they don't have this feature. They're just correctly sized coilovers with good bump AND droop travel with helper springs.

- Andrew

Mine was actually the opposite. In order for me to lower the car to the desired height, I had to loosen the collar until the spring had no tension at all. It was basically moving freely around the damper. I'd rather not have a spring flopping around during rebound.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by SpeedStarOne

Mine was actually the opposite. In order for me to lower the car to the desired height, I had to loosen the collar until the spring had no tension at all. It was basically moving freely around the damper. I'd rather not have a spring flopping around during rebound.

Sounds like you were probably running them too low.

[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by SpeedStarOne

Mine was actually the opposite. In order for me to lower the car to the desired height, I had to loosen the collar until the spring had no tension at all. It was basically moving freely around the damper. I'd rather not have a spring flopping around during rebound.

Originally Posted by wparsons

Sounds like you were probably running them too low.

That is the limitation of the single perch design.
While single perch can have more damper stroke travel, it's "operational" ride height adjustment range are limited.
If the suspension was designed to work at ride height "A", you simply cannot drop 1" from that point and have no ill effect on the actual suspension travel ratio.

With a dual perch design, it is more versatile but the limitation exist during the designing phase.
You will have a suspension that will operate well within any point of it's ride height adjustment.
You will start off with less damper travel typically vs. a single perch design.
However, the long as the suspension travel are adequate, then you have a suspension that have a much wider range of adjustment with no ill effect to damper travel ratio.

Another feature of the dual perch design is the independent springs pre-load adjustment, and that mean you can independently adjust the damper travel ratio.
Using a light springs so it will be more compliant for road use, but will end up with too much droop travel and the damper will bottom out?
Simply dial in some springs pre-load, this will free up the compression travel to prevent bottoming out the damper, while retaining full ride height adjustments.
This is something that single perch coilovers cannot do.


Basically, when you want a very specific race suspension design for a very limited ride height adjustment range, a single perch works great.
If you want a suspension that have a wider range of adjustments that will do everything well, but may not do it perfect at a "specific' point, then a dual perch will provide a better solution.
You can also get a suspension custom build, in which case then either design will do the long as the job is done right.

Jerrick

[shellslinger]

Just to add my two cents, I don't track my car but I've had experience with the tein flex z and another brand of coil overs. I'd recommend the tein flex z if all you're looking for is something that is similar to comfort levels of stock suspension and if you're looking for more performance when it comes to canyon cruising. I can't comment about track day driving as the only track day I ever had was 5 laps in Ferrari F430. Anyways, tein flex Z are great for the money. But if I had to do it all over again I'd go for my current set up of RS-R sports I, they're just as comfortable as flex z without the creaking noises and offer a lot more better damping levels and overall better performance for ME at the canyons. Of course, Id take my advice with a grain of salt as I'm not track day driver and I don't have nearly all the knowledge as some other forum members.

[SpeedStarOne]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Sounds like you were probably running them too low.

Welp, that's the reason I purchased coilovers... I wanted to lower the car.

Even if I had the collars snugged up the spring, the car would sit barely lower than stock. Thus my reasoning for not suggesting ST coilovers. Why chose a coilover that only has 1 way ride height adjustment, when there are plenty of other options (even in the same price range) that offer independent ride height and preload adjustment.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by SpeedStarOne

Welp, that's the reason I purchased coilovers... I wanted to lower the car.

Even if I had the collars snugged up the spring, the car would sit barely lower than stock. Thus my reasoning for not suggesting ST coilovers. Why chose a coilover that only has 1 way ride height adjustment, when there are plenty of other options (even in the same price range) that offer independent ride height and preload adjustment.

Not everyone wants a car that's slammed, some just want better performance. Lowering too much (beyond ~1.5") without knowing what geometry you need to correct can make handling worse than stock, so people on a budget typically stick to ~1" of lowering if they're after performance first.

If you knew you wanted to be much lower, ST isn't a good choice at all... there's multiple threads talking about which ones to get if you want to be really low.

[SpeedStarOne]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Not everyone wants a car that's slammed, some just want better performance. Lowering too much (beyond ~1.5") without knowing what geometry you need to correct can make handling worse than stock, so people on a budget typically stick to ~1" of lowering if they're after performance first.

If you knew you wanted to be much lower, ST isn't a good choice at all... there's multiple threads talking about which ones to get if you want to be really low.

Did you not read my post? "Even if I had the collars snugged up the spring, the car would sit barely lower than stock". I never said I wanted to slam the car...

This thread isn't about my car or my needs.

I was giving honest feedback because I've used the suspension the OP was asking about. If you actually read the original post:

"At the moment I'll probably will lower my car 2 inchs"

Hence the reason I would not suggest the ST coilovers.

I don't need your help, nor did I ask for it. You can continue helping the OP.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by SpeedStarOne

Did you not read my post? "Even if I had the collars snugged up the spring, the car would sit barely lower than stock". I never said I wanted to slam the car...

There's nothing inherently wrong with having the springs loose when at full droop. There are more important factors to suspension design.

Penske, Bilstein, and KW, off the top of my head, don't waste time with it. If it's a big issue for some reason, tender springs are a small price to pay for getting everything else just right.

[SpeedStarOne]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

There's nothing inherently wrong with having the springs loose when at full droop. There are more important factors to suspension design.

Penske, Bilstein, and KW, off the top of my head, don't waste time with it. If it's a big issue for some reason, tender springs are a small price to pay for getting everything else just right.

Yes, obviously. A company like KW wouldn't release their product if there was a problem with it. It's my personal experience with the ST suspension that I didn't like and I don't think it would be suitable for what the OP is looking for. He wants a 2" drop and a coilover with 2 way HEIGHT adjustment is more likely to give that to him.

[MeisterR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

There's nothing inherently wrong with having the springs loose when at full droop. There are more important factors to suspension design.

Penske, Bilstein, and KW, off the top of my head, don't waste time with it. If it's a big issue for some reason, tender springs are a small price to pay for getting everything else just right.

There is something inherently wrong with having springs loose at full droop.
That is why they invented helper springs.

That is an immediate failure of most European vehicle inspection.
UK, Germany, Netherland, Belgium, etc.
You have a springs that is loose at full drop, your car is off the road until it is fix.

It is one thing I am always quite strict on as a suspension provider.
Yes, chances are nothing is going to go wrong until you are a rally car jumping off humpback bridges.
But it is WRONG to have a springs that is loose, and not fixing it is just laziness.

Jerrick

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by MeisterR

But it is WRONG to have a springs that is loose, and not fixing it is just laziness.

Or cheapness