What am I damaging/wearing out when I don't properly shift.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Slip or ride the clutch. This is when you only have the clutch partly engaged and the face is just touching the flywheel. This will heat things up and can glaze the clutch disc pads or even blow things apart. You can do this for a couple of seconds (like starting on a hill) but anything prolonged or if it is just barely touching it can go bad fast. You will know you did it because you will create a smell that is like the very winds of hell have entered your car.

I hear see and hear this a lot, but can never really gauge how long is too long. For example, to get a smooth ride, I'll pause at at the friction point when shifting up or down (with my best attempt at rev matching) for a brief moment, then letting the clutch out smoothly but swiftly.

Also, riding the clutch in first from a standstill to 8mph is my "sweet-spot" for a smooth, normal-speed launch - yet sometimes I find myself accidentally slipping until 10+ mph.

Sometimes I smell something odd when I get out of the car and I think it may be the predecessor to burning/over-heating clutch but I'm not really sure. Definitely haven't had the "very winds of hell" enter my car yet though..

Thanks Tcoat, by the way. I appreciate all the advice you've been giving me.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cat94

I hear see and hear this a lot, but can never really gauge how long is too long. For example, to get a smooth ride, I'll pause at at the friction point when shifting up or down (with my best attempt at rev matching) for a brief moment, then letting the clutch out smoothly but swiftly.

Also, riding the clutch in first from a standstill to 8mph is my "sweet-spot" for a smooth, normal-speed launch - yet sometimes I find myself accidentally slipping until 10+ mph.

Sometimes I smell something odd when I get out of the car and I think it may be the predecessor to burning/over-heating clutch but I'm not really sure. Definitely haven't had the "very winds of hell" enter my car yet though..

Thanks Tcoat, by the way. I appreciate all the advice you've been giving me.

Letting it out slow is not the same as riding it so you should be fine. There is no mistaking the smell of burning clutch for any other odour I have experienced.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Slip or ride the clutch. This is when you only have the clutch partly engaged and the face is just touching the flywheel. This will heat things up and can glaze the clutch disc pads or even blow things apart. You can do this for a couple of seconds (like starting on a hill) but anything prolonged or if it is just barely touching it can go bad fast. You will know you did it because you will create a smell that is like the very winds of hell have entered your car.

A while ago when I didn't know much about the clutch and how to fry it, I had this Ford Escort wagon with M/T. I was in Boston on this hill (going up- very steep) waiting to go, but traffic was horrible and I was holding the car on the hill with the clutch for a while waiting for an opening. Wow is that stinky as hell. I didn't have the car long after that so I don't know if I ruined the clutch but once you do it, you know what you did even if you have no clue what you did.

[radroach]

CTRL + F throw out bearing, 0 results.

The throwout bearing probably takes a hit too when revs aren't matched closely too right?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by radroach

CTRL + F throw out bearing, 0 results.

The throwout bearing probably takes a hit too when revs aren't matched closely too right?

Not really. It is spinning no matter what and revs have very little impact on it.

[radroach]

@Tcoat Sometimes I need to rev match an upshift if my shift goes too slow (bad bushing install). In some cases, there's a honk from the transmission during that rev, that's the throw out bearing from what I've heard.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by cat94

I've been curious about what I'm wearing out/potentially damaging in these cases:

(1) Upshift: rpm too high and drops when clutch is re-engaged

(2) Upshift: rpm too low and rises when clutch is re-engaged

(3) Downshift: rev match too much, rpm high

(4) Downshift: rev match not enough, rpm low

Is this mainly wearing out my clutch? This is my first MT so I'm prepared to (and would rather) wear out my clutch a little faster rather than the transmission.

Also, between cases 1 & 2 and 3 & 4, which one is less damaging to do while learning?

In any case, the car will jerk/shudder unless I slow down for a 1/2 a second at the biting point when releasing the clutch.

(1) Practice

(2) Break

(3) Fix

(4) Practice

This car was built with a unique advantage over nearly all other tuner cars: It's difficult to break anything, and it's cheap and easy to fix everything.

Everything else has already been covered in this thread, but I thought I'd mention this, because it can potentially alter your philosophy about the car... The cost of a half-decent set of wheels and tires covers the cost of any single part or assembly on this car, and will pay the labor for most of them as well... All of them if you do the work yourself, and it comes with a free community of support and a free factory service manual... So don't worry about breaking it. You don't need a huge emergency fund to get it back on the road.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

(1) Practice

(2) Break

(3) Fix

(4) Practice

This car was built with a unique advantage over nearly all other tuner cars: It's difficult to break anything, and it's cheap and easy to fix everything.

Everything else has already been covered in this thread, but I thought I'd mention this, because it can potentially alter your philosophy about the car... The cost of a half-decent set of wheels and tires covers the cost of any single part or assembly on this car, and will pay the labor for most of them as well... All of them if you do the work yourself, and it comes with a free community of support and a free factory service manual... So don't worry about breaking it. You don't need a huge emergency fund to get it back on the road.

Thanks. This definitely makes me worry a little less about breaking things (other than my paint ).

Also reminds me of how the dealership's finance manager tried to get me to buy the extended warranty by saying the 86 was discontinued after 2017 and parts/labor would get expensive. Is this true? She was certain that this information was released to the public, but anything I've seen online points to there being a 2018 model... unrelated, but I was also continuously told that without the extended warranty I wouldn't be protected, and I had to convince the saleswomen that the car does come with a standard warranty.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by cat94

Thanks. This definitely makes me worry a little less about breaking things (other than my paint ).

Also reminds me of how the dealership's finance manager tried to get me to buy the extended warranty by saying the 86 was discontinued after 2017 and parts/labor would get expensive. Is this true? She was certain that this information was released to the public, but anything I've seen online points to there being a 2018 model... unrelated, but I was also continuously told that without the extended warranty I wouldn't be protected, and I had to convince the saleswomen that the car does come with a standard warranty.

First I've heard of it. It's public that the're killing Scion and the 86 is going to wear a Toyota badge like god intended, but parts will get less expensive when the car goes out of production.

Both my cars have been out of production in their respective forms for over a decade, and parts are still cheap and easy to find. (I don't have my Toyobaru anymore. Somebody made me an offer I couldn't refuse)

Toyota still makes parts for my 18-year-old Tacoma, and Honda still makes most of the parts for my 13-year-old AP1 S2000.

The used market and aftermarket are still flush with parts for both, and it will be the same for the Toyobaru for many, many years.

[gramicci101]

The finance manager is either clueless (possible) or a terrible salesperson (also possible). Toyota and Subaru just released a revised model in 2017. That will run for at least three years, if not four. At that point the 86 will have been a thing for eight years. Then I would worry about possible discontinuation.

I bought the extended warranty because the Subaru factory warranty sucks. But it does still have a factory warranty. I can't imagine Toyota making a consumer vehicle that didn't come with a warranty.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cat94

Thanks. This definitely makes me worry a little less about breaking things (other than my paint ).

Also reminds me of how the dealership's finance manager tried to get me to buy the extended warranty by saying the 86 was discontinued after 2017 and parts/labor would get expensive. Is this true? She was certain that this information was released to the public, but anything I've seen online points to there being a 2018 model... unrelated, but I was also continuously told that without the extended warranty I wouldn't be protected, and I had to convince the saleswomen that the car does come with a standard warranty.

Somewhere, someplace, buried way in Toyota/Subaru there is somebody that knows the future plans of these cars. If they released the info now they would be unemployed in minutes. Nobody knows for sure what the future will hold and if they tell you do know they are mistaken or lying.
You have a standard warranty and that is plenty.
The Saleperson was just trying to upsell you since that is where they make the better money (they make very little selling the actual car).
Why would parts and labour be more even if they discontinued the car? "Oh sorry Mr. Cat they don't make those cars anymore so we charge 100% more labour and the parts are only available from a junk dealer on Tatooine". The sales person was just plain dumb to even say that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

First I've heard of it. It's public that the're killing Scion and the 86 is going to wear a Toyota badge like god intended, but parts will get less expensive when the car goes out of production.

Both my cars have been out of production in their respective forms for over a decade, and parts are still cheap and easy to find. (I don't have my Toyobaru anymore. Somebody made me an offer I couldn't refuse)

Toyota still makes parts for my 18-year-old Tacoma, and Honda still makes most of the parts for my 13-year-old AP1 S2000.

The used market and aftermarket are still flush with parts for both, and it will be the same for the Toyobaru for many, many years.

Cat's already wears an official Toyota badge.


One of the plants I work in still makes 60,000 rotors a year for PT Cruisers. Freakin' PT CRUISERS!

[cat94]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

The finance manager is either clueless (possible) or a terrible salesperson (also possible). Toyota and Subaru just released a revised model in 2017. That will run for at least three years, if not four. At that point the 86 will have been a thing for eight years. Then I would worry about possible discontinuation.

I bought the extended warranty because the Subaru factory warranty sucks. But it does still have a factory warranty. I can't imagine Toyota making a consumer vehicle that didn't come with a warranty.

That's what baffled me. There was no way something that costs nearly $30,000 didn't come with a warranty.

Do Subaru and Toyota offer similar standard warranties? I looked through the extended warranty brochure and couldn't find anything that would be worth $4,000 to fix. Then again, I'm new to "car-owning".

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Somewhere, someplace, buried way in Toyota/Subaru there is somebody that knows the future plans of these cars. If they released the info now they would be unemployed in minutes. Nobody knows for sure what the future will hold and if they tell you do know they are mistaken or lying.
You have a standard warranty and that is plenty.
The Saleperson was just trying to upsell you since that is where they make the better money (they make very little selling the actual car).
Why would parts and labour be more even if they discontinued the car? "Oh sorry Mr. Cat they don't make those cars anymore so we charge 100% more labour and the parts are only available from a junk dealer on Tatooine". The sales person was just plain dumb to even say that.

Republic credits!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need something more reeeeeal.