Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[acetothermus]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

Sorry, can't read the article. Too busy enjoying my 2016 to care.

Edited that to reflect my car...but I totally agree.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Counter the poison:

Great quote from him a few minutes in, along the lines of "I love the 4.3 swap, because it tells me the engineering guy won over the marketing guy. The marketing guy will focus on 0-60 times, which the new diff would probably compromise due to the need for an extra shift to hit 60, but the the engineering guy would see this as irrelevant when it comes to building a faster, more fun-to-drive car"

Also, he addresses the value proposition of the car, noting that a lighter car is ultimately more expensive to build (lightweight materials are needed, which tend to be more expensive).

Closing comment: "The great thing is that this car isn't for everyone - and we need more cars that have their specific niche that certain people will enjoy driving"


Not too surprising, since this guy just got an AP1 S2000 (ditched the '14 STI)

I disagreed with him on some of his reasoning. He says you can't add more power to this car without also beefing up all the drivetrain components and adding weight.


I don't think that's right. If we were talking about dropping another 150-200hp into it, sure. But a 50-75hp gain (which is what most people seem to want) wouldn't necessarily call for an all new drivetrain. Even if it did, we wouldn't necessarily be talking about a lot of weight.


The 86s are light, but Toyota didn't go so far as to lose a lug nut on each wheel and drop webbing on the transmission like Mazda did.


End of the day though, I can't really say for sure because I don't work for Toyota or Subaru, but neither does that guy.

[daiheadjai]

The drive shaft comment made me wonder, but generally, more power in a production car usually does mean more effort and expense to ensure the car can handle it.

Remember the debacle of the V6 Mustangs shattering their drive shafts a few years back?

Not to mention, the testing to ensure it remains reasonably safe and reliable would mean another layer of added cost...

[GT86meMR2]

Looks like there is a noticeable increase in acceleration though 0-60 is 0.1 faster but doesnt the 2016 Brz do 60 in 2nd gear and the 2017 needs to shift to 3rd gear to reach 60? So still being 0.1 faster with an extra shift included is prettig nice in my opinion. I guess the 1/4 can be better than this review says with some practice.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I disagreed with him on some of his reasoning. He says you can't add more power to this car without also beefing up all the drivetrain components and adding weight.


I don't think that's right. If we were talking about dropping another 150-200hp into it, sure. But a 50-75hp gain (which is what most people seem to want) wouldn't necessarily call for an all new drivetrain. Even if it did, we wouldn't necessarily be talking about a lot of weight.


The 86s are light, but Toyota didn't go so far as to lose a lug nut on each wheel and drop webbing on the transmission like Mazda did.


End of the day though, I can't really say for sure because I don't work for Toyota or Subaru, but neither does that guy.

Who just wants 50HP? you can already get there, more or less, with bolt-ons and an e85 tune. Most people seem to want at least 250WHP, which is around 90HP more at the crank and, with turbo and S/C, a lot more power under the curve. Then you're looking at a lot more work.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Who just wants 50HP? you can already get there, more or less, with bolt-ons and an e85 tune. Most people seem to want at least 250WHP, which is around 90HP more at the crank and, with turbo and S/C, a lot more power under the curve. Then you're looking at a lot more work.

Well, the WRX has the FA20 with a t/c and is rated for 268hp.


That's kind of where I was thinking when I said 50-75hp.


That's the most realistic scenario we have with Subaru.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Who just wants 50HP? you can already get there, more or less, with bolt-ons and an e85 tune. Most people seem to want at least 250WHP, which is around 90HP more at the crank and, with turbo and S/C, a lot more power under the curve. Then you're looking at a lot more work.

So many want that seemingly random 300HP. But then most that say that have never even sat in the car much less driven one.




Oh and the whole "just go E85" thing is meaningless to about half the people on this forum that do not have access to E85.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

The 86s are light, but Toyota didn't go so far as to lose a lug nut on each wheel and drop webbing on the transmission like Mazda did.

Mazda MX-5? Add 2 seats at the back and a roof and check again the weight. You shouldn't find a great difference ...

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Mazda MX-5? Add 2 seats at the back and a roof and check again the weight. You shouldn't find a great difference ...

Difference of about ~430 pounds.


*shrug*


I just meant I don't think Toyota put a "barely strong enough" driveline in there like Mazda did. Mazda may have even gone too far with the ND.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So many want that seemingly random 300HP. But then most that say that have never even sat in the car much less driven one.




Oh and the whole "just go E85" thing is meaningless to about half the people on this forum that do not have access to E85.

Blame Canada! At least for the e85 thing.

300HP ain't no big thing. It's nice, though, especially in such a light car.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

Difference of about ~430 pounds.


*shrug*


I just meant I don't think Toyota put a "barely strong enough" driveline in there like Mazda did. Mazda may have even gone too far with the ND.

Got it

[strat61caster]

Modest FI kits seem to not be breaking anything at the 230-240 whp mark, that's ~290 crank hp.

[why?]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Modest FI kits seem to not be breaking anything at the 230-240 whp mark, that's ~290 crank hp.

but reading through the fi threads, that's about the top. There seems to be a consensus that over 300 hp and things will start breaking. And the transmission is the biggest problem.

More importantly a manufacturer can't just say it'll be fine for 20k miles and then you'll have to start fixing stuff, they need to guarantee perfection for at least their warranty period, and more than likely 100k miles. That is why the good cars are overmanufactured, so there isn't massive issues just beyond the warranty. You look through the fi threads and it seems half the people seem to be always having niggling pia issues that they need to constantly fix.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by why?

You look through the fi threads and it seems half the people seem to be always having niggling pia issues that they need to constantly fix.

Downselecting to the higher quality kits and tossing out the guys running custom tunes/setups cuts that number down significantly.

I'm only looking at emissions compliant kits and the picture looks pretty damn good from here. It'll be a few years until I pop a kit on mine but things are incredibly promising, many are well past '20k miles'.