Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid - Page 11 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Marat · 10-22-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

....but the 240 did remain in production longer in Japan......

That's primarily because they introduced the s15 in 1999 in japan. Im sure s-chassis would of sold in north america for a bit longer if they brought the s15 over. Point is, the majority of people who buy these cars are not enthusiasts and wont justify spending that much more to have a more powerful engine. They can just go elsewhere and get something cheaper with the same power output. Manufacturers cater to the need of the majority not the minority like car enthusiasts.

P.S. 240 was only offered in north america, in japan they hadthe 180 and silvia.

fatoni · 10-22-2016, 03:20 PM

while i dont agree with the review, its not far off. the car isnt providing the newness it once did. the engine makes enough power i think but it does it in a rather boring way. its a good car but you dont buy good. you buy what speaks to you. were all here because the compromises this car are the ones that work best for us but to call someone an idiot because they have different views or desires is dumb.

p.s. the ae86 was a pretty terrible sports car. mildly fun and kinda charming but when people started spending real money to buy them, it was crazy to me.

Tcoat · 10-22-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marat

That's primarily because they introduced the s15 in 1999 in japan. Im sure s-chassis would of sold in north america for a bit longer if they brought the s15 over. Point is, the majority of people who buy these cars are not enthusiasts and wont justify spending that much more to have a more powerful engine. They can just go elsewhere and get something cheaper with the same power output. Manufacturers cater to the need of the majority not the minority like car enthusiasts.

P.S. 240 was only offered in north america, in japan they hadthe 180 and silvia.

This (and any car) forum skews the perception of who the average owner is and what they want horribly.

If they built the car the many on the forum want it would be a wide bodied, big tired, 2000 pound, 400HP beast for about $80K. They would sell a few hundred and that would be the end of it. Even then there would be a crowd of people saying it looked too plain, didn't have enough grip, it was way heavy, needs 100 more HP and cost far too much.

Oh wait there are loads of those already isn't there?

darthpnoy1984 · 10-22-2016, 05:12 PM

Now this is the shit 2/3 HP baby

954cc single cylinder engine 2/3hp.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ultramaroon · 10-22-2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

p.s. the ae86 was a pretty terrible sports car. mildly fun and kinda charming but when people started spending real money to buy them, it was crazy to me.

+1

mrg666 · 10-22-2016, 06:22 PM

Torque dip complainers: You gotta downshift before accelerating. Like a real sports car on the track, it should never rev down to the dip area if you are driving for sports. Everybody is MT fanatic and nobody is willing to use that stick to accelerate.

Yoshoobaroo · 10-22-2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

\Focusing on 0-60 and quarter mile times as the defining aspect of a sports car?

This

Yoshoobaroo · 10-22-2016, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrg666

Torque dip complainers: You gotta downshift before accelerating. Like a real sports car on the track, it should never rev down to the dip area if you are driving for sports. Everybody is MT fanatic and nobody is willing to use that stick to accelerate.

-Josh

EAGLE5 · 10-22-2016, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

while i dont agree with the review, its not far off. the car isnt providing the newness it once did. the engine makes enough power i think but it does it in a rather boring way. its a good car but you dont buy good. you buy what speaks to you. were all here because the compromises this car are the ones that work best for us but to call someone an idiot because they have different views or desires is dumb.

p.s. the ae86 was a pretty terrible sports car. mildly fun and kinda charming but when people started spending real money to buy them, it was crazy to me.

The fun version of this car is the early FR-S. The one with the tail that insists on coming out. The car is always a tiny stab of the accelerator away from oversteer. It's a blast. If the car was boring, perhaps you had the wrong version?

Ultramaroon · 10-22-2016, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The fun version of this car is the early FR-S. The one with the tail that insists on coming out. The car is always a tiny stab of the accelerator away from oversteer. It's a blast. If the car was boring, perhaps you had the wrong version?

First year FRS FTW.

nikitopo · 10-23-2016, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh wait there are loads of those already isn't there?

They are not Subarus. I am not eager to change my brand. At least not for the time being.

When I bought the BRZ, the other option was to wait for the STI. At that time the old STI wasn't available anymore and the new one was not announced. I didn't want to wait so much and besides I wanted something more compact.

guybo · 10-23-2016, 08:53 AM

I don't see why Car And Driver is being blamed for a bad article. The main complaint with this car from day one is a lack of power. The refresh does nothing to fix that problem. 5hp and 5tq didn't fix it. The article says that the handling is still great, not much has changed.

The article nails it.

That said, who the hell buys an 86 for the power?

why? · 10-23-2016, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

while i dont agree with the review, its not far off. the car isnt providing the newness it once did. the engine makes enough power i think but it does it in a rather boring way. its a good car but you dont buy good. you buy what speaks to you. were all here because the compromises this car are the ones that work best for us but to call someone an idiot because they have different views or desires is dumb.

p.s. the ae86 was a pretty terrible sports car. mildly fun and kinda charming but when people started spending real money to buy them, it was crazy to me.

I know I would have rather had a 1.3l four that revved to 13k or higher. Even with less power that would have been a heck of a lot of fun.

daiheadjai · 10-23-2016, 10:37 AM

Counter the poison:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-KLiQUzHM&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained"]2017 Subaru BRZ Review - Updated Engine & Differential! - YouTube[/ame]

Great quote from him a few minutes in, along the lines of "I love the 4.3 swap, because it tells me the engineering guy won over the marketing guy. The marketing guy will focus on 0-60 times, which the new diff would probably compromise due to the need for an extra shift to hit 60, but the the engineering guy would see this as irrelevant when it comes to building a faster, more fun-to-drive car"

Also, he addresses the value proposition of the car, noting that a lighter car is ultimately more expensive to build (lightweight materials are needed, which tend to be more expensive).

Closing comment: "The great thing is that this car isn't for everyone - and we need more cars that have their specific niche that certain people will enjoy driving"

Not too surprising, since this guy just got an AP1 S2000 (ditched the '14 STI)

10-22-2016, 03:20 PM	#142
fatoni Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: miata, mazdaspeed protege, ls430 Location: socal Posts: 4,416 Thanks: 599 Thanked 1,443 Times in 787 Posts Mentioned: 28 Post(s)	while i dont agree with the review, its not far off. the car isnt providing the newness it once did. the engine makes enough power i think but it does it in a rather boring way. its a good car but you dont buy good. you buy what speaks to you. were all here because the compromises this car are the ones that work best for us but to call someone an idiot because they have different views or desires is dumb. p.s. the ae86 was a pretty terrible sports car. mildly fun and kinda charming but when people started spending real money to buy them, it was crazy to me. __________________ Drive upgrades. Don't buy them.

10-22-2016, 05:12 PM	#144
darthpnoy1984 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Drives: 15 ZN6 Asphalt Location: Carson CA Posts: 441 Thanks: 338 Thanked 195 Times in 136 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s)	Now this is the shit 2/3 HP baby 954cc single cylinder engine 2/3hp. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 2015 ZN6 DD AT

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Stupid? Or Cool? I'm too old to know	FNCrazy	Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting)	27	08-03-2016 10:59 AM
Does This Look Stupid?	FNCrazy	Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting)	29	07-24-2016 10:54 PM
Help stupid iphone	Atticus808	Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS]	5	01-19-2015 10:53 PM
stupid question about brz	andrewmay9	BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics	55	05-17-2014 03:10 AM
stupid deer	balla_08	Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting)	11	12-14-2013 05:23 PM

10-23-2016, 08:53 AM	#152
guybo Huge E85 fan! Join Date: May 2016 Drives: 2016 Scion FRS Location: Tampa, FL, USA Posts: 1,850 Thanks: 539 Thanked 1,010 Times in 605 Posts Mentioned: 32 Post(s)	I don't see why Car And Driver is being blamed for a bad article. The main complaint with this car from day one is a lack of power. The refresh does nothing to fix that problem. 5hp and 5tq didn't fix it. The article says that the handling is still great, not much has changed. The article nails it. That said, who the hell buys an 86 for the power?

10-23-2016, 10:37 AM	#154
daiheadjai Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Drives: 2003 S2000, 2008 Fit Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 1,990 Thanks: 2,584 Thanked 1,154 Times in 688 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s)	Counter the poison: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-KLiQUzHM&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained"]2017 Subaru BRZ Review - Updated Engine & Differential! - YouTube[/ame] Great quote from him a few minutes in, along the lines of "I love the 4.3 swap, because it tells me the engineering guy won over the marketing guy. The marketing guy will focus on 0-60 times, which the new diff would probably compromise due to the need for an extra shift to hit 60, but the the engineering guy would see this as irrelevant when it comes to building a faster, more fun-to-drive car" Also, he addresses the value proposition of the car, noting that a lighter car is ultimately more expensive to build (lightweight materials are needed, which tend to be more expensive). Closing comment: "The great thing is that this car isn't for everyone - and we need more cars that have their specific niche that certain people will enjoy driving" Not too surprising, since this guy just got an AP1 S2000 (ditched the '14 STI)

User Name		Remember Me?
Password