FHI has registered "BRZ tS" as a United States Trademark

[CBRZY]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Comparison between BRZ tS, TRD 14R60 and new Honda Civic Type R with the 310 hp in Suzuka. Too bad that the BRT tS didn't have the rear wing, but overall it was fast:

I wouldn't call it a "comparison". it's a race with different drivers with different skill levels. the person in the TRD was way more aggressive than the tS driver for sure.

but yeah, agree with Sport Tech, the wing wouldn't have made a difference here

Sure looks like a fun track, though! would love to try that out

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Interesting - at the slow speeds they were driving the tS's lack of wing would have made next to no difference. Let's face it, the tS got hella-F'ed by the TRD...

The rear wing makes a difference from 37mph and up. However, I didn't post the video to start an opposition between STI and TRD. Both cars belong to the same family. I posted to show that power is not everything and that the handling changes made by both companies are working. If not, please explain how they manage to outperform the Honda Civic Spec R.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by CBRZY

I wouldn't call it a "comparison". it's a race with different drivers with different skill levels. the person in the TRD was way more aggressive than the tS driver for sure.

but yeah, agree with Sport Tech, the wing wouldn't have made a difference here

Sure looks like a fun track, though! would love to try that out

Again a mention on TRD and STI and nothing about Honda. By the way, all the four drivers were professionals. There are always differences in style, but the differences on this level are very small. If any of the cars had issues in performance, for sure it would appear in the result.

[Sport-Tech]

Everything I've read says wings don't make any significant difference below 70 mph, usually below 90 mph, and I doubt they got that fast there for more than a few seconds a lap. That said, that was a stonkin' big wing on the TRD so its effects might kick in at a slightly lower speed, but 37 mph? Id like to see a link for that.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

When sources make claims like this, their credibility goes right into the crapper:
Even the Bugatti Veyron only has 16.4" rotors.

It usually just means that they are in Japan.

Japanese companies refer to the brake "sizes" as the smallest wheel diameter that will fit over the brakes, versus the actual size of the brake rotor.

So in this case, it's just a lack of understanding the context the statement was made in more than a reflection of the credibility of the person who stated it. I don't use their method either as it's not a real data point IMO.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

That said, that was a stonkin' big wing on the TRD so its effects might kick in at a slightly lower speed, but 37 mph? Id like to see a link for that.

I've seen some top drivers using similar wings in the All Japan Gymkhana races. In such races the top speeds are small ...


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[why?]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Everything I've read says wings don't make any significant difference below 70 mph, usually below 90 mph, and I doubt they got that fast there for more than a few seconds a lap. That said, that was a stonkin' big wing on the TRD so its effects might kick in at a slightly lower speed, but 37 mph? Id like to see a link for that.

everything you've read is wrong. There is a reason the top autocross guys all have mammoth wings. It is not all about massive downforce, but about changing how the car handles and corners. Also why wings work on front wheel drive cars if the person knows what they are doing.

[Ernest72]

Debating the wing is futile. If you track or autox maybe the wing helps, maybe it does not. But for DD the wing is for show and that's fine. Some people like the look and attention a big wing gives. I prefer a bit more modest look, don't need cops picking me out of all the cars speeding.

If I had a dedicated track car it would have a wing, one that was as light and stiff as possible.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Debating the wing is futile. If you track or autox maybe the wing helps, maybe it does not. But for DD the wing is for show and that's fine. Some people like the look and attention a big wing gives. I prefer a bit more modest look, don't need cops picking me out of all the cars speeding.

If I had a dedicated track car it would have a wing, one that was as light and stiff as possible.

This is a very valid argument and it is understandable. In fact, there were 2 tS versions in Japan. In first version a GT wing was available as an option, in second version the wing was not available at all. Reason was that the owners didn't want to get the attention.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I've seen some top drivers using similar wings in the All Japan Gymkhana races. In such races the top speeds are small ...

Interesting. The wing angle in that video looks much more steeply raked than is typical even on say a GT3 class car, which is probably why it has effects at lower speeds. Never seen a production car (excepting perhaps some exotic) with an OEM wing that steep. It would produce incredible drag at high speeds but then that is not an issue for gymkhana.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Debating the wing is futile. If you track or autox maybe the wing helps, maybe it does not. But for DD the wing is for show and that's fine. Some people like the look and attention a big wing gives. I prefer a bit more modest look, don't need cops picking me out of all the cars speeding.

If I had a dedicated track car it would have a wing, one that was as light and stiff as possible.

exactly what we are saying. It can help on a track if setup properly. It can even help in spirited driving on the street as some 2013 FRS owners have reported.

[nikitopo]

Nice video comparison between aero and no aero (same car, same track, same driver). Big picture with aero, small without (i.e. rear wing):

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUuxj6xpq5Y"]No aero vs aero on Scion fr-s - YouTube[/ame]

[DSOmegaX]

It's so pretty though.

But honestly off track it can be used in noticeable ways, with the obvious areas being on ramps and such. At speeds that previously would begin to break the back loose now grip. Corners I regular use I've consistently increased speed on a regular basis with no loss of traction. I've had others who've driven the car before and after the wing was installed that attest to the same (and truly before and after wing installation as to not attribute feedback due to other mods).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

It's so pretty though.

But honestly off track it can be used in noticeable ways, with the obvious areas being on ramps and such. At speeds that previously would begin to break the back loose now grip. Corners I regular use I've consistently increased speed on a regular basis with no loss of traction. I've had others who've driven the car before and after the wing was installed that attest to the same (and truly before and after wing installation as to not attribute feedback due to other mods).

If you are driving on the streets or highway at speeds where the wing helps to any degree you are driving too fast!


Besides I have never yet met a person that put a big wing on a car that didn't say "well I can feel a huge difference". Nobody else could feel it but they loved that wing and would argue to the death that it was the best thing in the world. Confirmation bias is a real thing.