Just Get No Respect

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by mav1178

But what are the rules for passing? Only on straights?

You have every right to flash your high beams or make a move to pass. If the other driver doesn't see you, bring it up to that driver or track organizers the next time you are in a down session.

Or do what I do: just go back into hot pits and ask the track workers to give you space.

If these don't solve your problems, then perhaps you should also consider running with another group or organizer.

-alex

Passing is only on straights and the areas are marked.

There was one time I considered doing a pass through to get space but with 30 some cars on the track, there wasn't a lot of empty space. The time I did consider to come in, I was in the middle of a line of maybe 10+ cars. I left a few cars go by and next thing I knew I was all by myself. Cars behind me slowed up other cars so that I got a good bit of space to myself. Passed a few cars later on as I caught up to some of the slower cars that were ahead of me. Strange how that worked out.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've given love taps, in a HPDE, to people in fully prepped cars that are clearly not letting me by.

Not my fault if they can't guard their line in a "race condition" group, on slicks, against a car on street tires.

Keep in mind, this only happens in extreme cases when I'm held up for multiple laps.

Hahaha that's one way to do it. Some of my friends joke that I can get aggressive but I've got nothing on you! Do you ever get black-flagged (or punched)?

Honestly it's hard to feel sympathetic for drivers who hold others up at the track. Especially in higher groups, they should know better.

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

For the Porsche, I just want to point out that I don't think he did anything wrong. I got close to him a few times and he would probably have left me by but a faster car caught up to me so I left the faster car by. After that I was back a ways and had to catch up again. I try not to hold up cars if I can. But he could have left me by if he wanted. He had chances.

I understand what you are saying in general, but your description of this particular case, I'd say your "body language" on the track was tentative at best. There is not need to let someone by if you are "in line" to get by the person in front of you.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Hahaha that's one way to do it. Some of my friends joke that I can get aggressive but I've got nothing on you! Do you ever get black-flagged (or punched)?

Honestly it's hard to feel sympathetic for drivers who hold others up at the track. Especially in higher groups, they should know better.

It's difficult to do that when there's no clear damage (the tap is that light, but enough to spin them), and when they're in a fully prepped race car that was trailered there and I'm in a "lowly" BRZ/FRS that is obviously a street car and driven to the track.

[hpde_addict]

I can't even get a minivan to point me by on Highway 9.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've given love taps, in a HPDE, to people in fully prepped cars that are clearly not letting me by.

Not my fault if they can't guard their line in a "race condition" group, on slicks, against a car on street tires.

Keep in mind, this only happens in extreme cases when I'm held up for multiple laps.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's difficult to do that when there's no clear damage (the tap is that light, but enough to spin them), and when they're in a fully prepped race car that was trailered there and I'm in a "lowly" BRZ/FRS that is obviously a street car and driven to the track.

Mike,

Are you quite fucking serious?

You're bragging on the internet about intentionally bumping and spinning out cars in a HPDE. What the fuck is wrong with you?

You would get banned and possibly beaten til your unconscious over here.

It's a track day. The E in HPDE stands for education. It doesn't matter what group you're in, you're not winning a trophy.

A lot of people look up to you and take your word as gospel. We all know how fast you are (because you tell us all the time) and you have a lot of knowledge to share. That's great. So implying that it's okay to punt people off the track if they're holding you up at an HDPE is well beyond irresponsible.

Track days already have a certain amount of danger (people die) so we don't need some noob knocking cars off the track because he read on the internet that CSG Mike does it whenever he's "held up for multiple laps."

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

And you're an instructor! That is just absurd. I really don't even know what else to say...

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

I think you should read what I wrote, very, very carefully. I wouldn't ever do that in a standard HPDE group. There are many things going on, that leads to a love tap, and many requisite conditions.

- Race condition group (e.g. expect to be dive bombed, because you WILL be dive bombed)
- Race level awareness (e.g. you should know your mirrors)
- HPDE level courtesy (let cars by you; don't block because there are no prizes)
- Race level driver (if I am braking deeper, the car in front of me damn well better know)
- Obvious douchebag (I've already presented myself in their mirrors, and IN THEIR DOOR, many times, but they insist on not letting me pass)
- I will, literally, honk my horn while I am NEXT to them, on the inside line.
- As expected, this type of behavior will result in both cars slowing down, and I'll be giving point bys. Guy not allowing me by will almost certainly let the car I let by, also pass him, confirming that the guy is absolutely aware that I am behind him.

If and when a love tap happens, it will, every time, be them turning into me, and video evidence will be presented. I am choosing not to give up my space, not turning into them.

I don't see what me being an instructor has to do with me giving an extreme example. I'm not encouraging the behavior and I would hope everyone's sense of self preservation (both bodily and property) will override their desire to force a pass.

Do I condone the behavior? No. Do some people need to learn the hard way? Yes. Don't deny that you've never run into that person. My patience will only last so long, if they're not treating everyone on track with respect. You know as well as I do how many egos are at the track, and how much these egos go hand in hand with the dollar value of their car.

Often, they get into the mentality of "it's not a race group; they're more afraid of damaging their own car than I am of mine, so they'll always give way".

This is not what I'm encouraging.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5PcXrq7LQM"]Nascar Truck 2016 - Canadian Tire Motorsports Park - Finish and Fight - YouTube[/ame]

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

I have a BRZ with a JRSC and a few other mods. I have done several PDE sessions and Track Nights.

In driving the track, seeing how people act on the track, and talking to some of the other drivers, the BRZ/FR-S just get not respect. I noticed on the track that I don't get point byes very readily and a few other things that sort of show that these cars always don't get respect.

I talked to a driver of a Porsche 911 at the end of last night. In the last session, I kept closing up on him but a much faster car would come up behind me and I would drop off and leave the other car by. Happened 3 or 4 times. The Porsche driver said afterwards that he saw this slow reputation car come up behind (my BRZ) and was trying to figure if he should leave me pass. I told him what I had and said maybe he should have let me by. There were other times last night that I came up behind a car and it took a few passing areas before they left me by. Mostly I had to really get on their tail after initially closing on them pretty fast.


Realized that this is part of experience but sometimes it gets frustrating when there are 30 cars on the track. Where my car gets thrown for a little loop is when closing in on a car and I have to back off. This car is a momentum car in that if you keep it moving, it really goes. But as soon as I have brake where I normally don't, it takes a while to get back to where I was before the braking. This happens on straights where the car in front is not fully up to speed, I have to brake, and the other car takes off. Might take me another 1/4 to 1/2 a lap to get back on him again where the other car finally figures out I am faster than he is. By the way, my car looks intentionally stock until you look closer and see some of the mods.


Anyone else feel this way?

Do a "Senna" - his philosophy was I'm putting my car here... if you turn into me that's your problem.

Haha - but same happens on bikes... I have a 600, and (I've raced) am generally in the fastest groups at local track days, but obviously don't have the power of the 1000's - so passing on a straight isn't gonna happen.
They don't let you through, and they get annoyed cos a smaller bike is quicker.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've given love taps, in a HPDE, to people in fully prepped cars that are clearly not letting me by.

Not my fault if they can't guard their line in a "race condition" group, on slicks, against a car on street tires.

Keep in mind, this only happens in extreme cases when I'm held up for multiple laps.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's difficult to do that when there's no clear damage (the tap is that light, but enough to spin them), and when they're in a fully prepped race car that was trailered there and I'm in a "lowly" BRZ/FRS that is obviously a street car and driven to the track.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Do I condone the behavior? No. Do some people need to learn the hard way? Yes. Don't deny that you've never run into that person. My patience will only last so long, if they're not treating everyone on track with respect. You know as well as I do how many egos are at the track, and how much these egos go hand in hand with the dollar value of their car.

OMG!

[JazzleSAURUS]

Well this thread took an interesting turn...

[Icecreamtruk]

Never though I needed to take out the pop-corn, but damn this has gotten interesting.

On a side note, I have encountered people who dont let me by because of the car, and not in HPDE but on Time Attack events, where there are prices and it does matter. In one specific scenario this is what the guy told me when I went to talk to him after the session: "Oh I though you were in my class (I was in a faster class) so thats why I didnt give you the point by". I was furious, would that mean that if I was in his class he was intentionnaly blocking me so I couldnt get a clean lap in? Before you tell me to go into the pits and let him by, it was a 2 min a lap track and we have 10 minutes to score a fast lap, going into the pits is 4 minutes wasted at best, and with 25 cars on track, there really isnt much clean space.

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

I understand what you are saying in general, but your description of this particular case, I'd say your "body language" on the track was tentative at best. There is not need to let someone by if you are "in line" to get by the person in front of you.

This situation with the Porsche may be a little different. Typically I will stay after the car in front until I can get by but I think there may a little history here. I am not sure if this is the same car but earlier this year I got behind a Porsche in 2 different sessions where I couldn't get a point by until late in the second session. I was pretty frustrated and mentioned it to the organizers but I don't know if anything happened. This may have been the same Porsche. I didn't want to be stuck behind this guy with a line of fast cars behind me, I was trying to be courteous to the other drivers and not frustrate them.

After the last session this time, I talked to the Porsche driver in a very friendly way so I think he will let me by next time since he now knows that I am not stock.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

After the last session this time, I talked to the Porsche driver in a very friendly way so I think he will let me by next time since he now knows that I am not stock.

Stock or not, if someone is constantly up your butt, they get the point by.