Compound boost.

[DustinS]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I was thinking something like the cosworth kit paired with the avo turbo kit since it's mounted low and out of the way.

You still need to get a bigger turbo on it. I already have a turbo kit. I just need the bigger turbo, and cosworth kit. Plus small modifications to run the two together plus tuning.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jaden

NO your posts don't say anything (I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding my long winded posts). My 153 IQ and my three degrees graduating summa cum laude proves that you're wrong and honestly I don't give a rat's ass if I come off as arrogant, it doesn't change the reality.

LOL...

Jaden

"prove"


"my reality"

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by DustinS

You still need to get a bigger turbo on it. I already have a turbo kit. I just need the bigger turbo, and cosworth kit. Plus small modifications to run the two together plus tuning.

Fair enough. What turbo kit do you have? I do like the cosworth has the A-2-W intercooler so that would help

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by DustinS

You still need to get a bigger turbo on it. I already have a turbo kit. I just need the bigger turbo, and cosworth kit. Plus small modifications to run the two together plus tuning.

Found it!

[DustinS]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Found it!

Even has a place for the hamsters to run and help pre-spool the turbo. Kind of defeats the supercharger though.

Originally Posted by weederr33

Fair enough. What turbo kit do you have? I do like the cosworth has the A-2-W intercooler so that would help

Speed By Design. I had plans to change a few things on the kit over winter anyway. Mainly external wastegate, GTX3076 w/Tial housing, intercooler. Have all the stuff for a 3" downpipe already.

Same reason I chose the cosworth. Only issue (as brought up in the mess of posts before) is the stacking of intercooler/A/W cooler. Proper ducting could help with that, but until it is actually tested, the extent of modifications needed to make it perfect can only be guessed.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by DustinS

Even has a place for the hamsters to run and help pre-spool the turbo. Kind of defeats the supercharger though.



Speed By Design. I had plans to change a few things on the kit over winter anyway. Mainly external wastegate, GTX3076 w/Tial housing, intercooler. Have all the stuff for a 3" downpipe already.

Same reason I chose the cosworth. Only issue (as brought up in the mess of posts before) is the stacking of intercooler/A/W cooler. Proper ducting could help with that, but until it is actually tested, the extent of modifications needed to make it perfect can only be guessed.

True. It sounds silly but what about mounting the intercooler on the underside of the car?

[DustinS]

Originally Posted by weederr33

True. It sounds silly but what about mounting the intercooler on the underside of the car?

A V-Mount should take care of any issues. Though keeping A/C without a ton of modifications is what holds me back from doing that.

I am hoping to swing a second hand cosworth (or 335) for a decent price.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by DustinS

A V-Mount should take care of any issues. Though keeping A/C without a ton of modifications is what holds me back from doing that.

I am hoping to swing a second hand cosworth (or 335) for a decent price.

By any chance, do you have a build thread? I'd love to follow it if you go through with this project.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

By any chance, do you have a build thread? I'd love to follow it if you go through with this project.

Yes he does and it is proof that some guys actually do the work (and do it right) instead of just shooting their mouth off without actually doing squat!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68363

[DustinS]

Maybe @Matt@Cosworth can lead me to the dent and ding section of the Cosworth website

[Matt@Cosworth]

sadly no dent and ding parts
I have 1 dev unit left over from our dyno testing and another in our dev car

bear in mind though that thanks to our recent departure from the EU club a dollar now buys you 75 pence instead of 63 pence so all of our stuff has gotten cheaper if you have american dollars in your pocket...
I'd like to see a compound setup with our charger as the cooling is somewhat oversized for the standard kit so it'd be nice to see it stretched a bit and I know of a couple of people investigating this layout

hopefully something will surface soon

[justatroll]

@Jaden

I am having some difficulty with some of your numbers.

Disclaimer - Some of these numbers are guesses (e.g. BSFC = .4), if you have better values, please provide them and I can recalculate

First lets verify that we have starting numbers right.

In stock form, the FA20 does:
Stock engine: 200 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 105F, VE = .95, RPM 6500, disp 122 in^3
0 PSI boost required @ 16 lbs/min air flow

But you mention:

Originally Posted by Jaden

...
That should give you 20 psi at 3300 rpm with the air flow to be making 450-500 hp. Then max out boost at like 35 psi sending through 80-90 lbs a minute of air.

...

Which doesnt make much sense.
for one example: to get 80-90 lbs of air flow in this engine (@3300 RPM) you would need ~130 PSI boost (or 62PSI @ 6500RPM)

My calcs show:
Stock engine: 500 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 130F, VE = .95, RPM 3300, disp 122 in^3
64.2 PSI boost required @ 40 lbs/min air flow

So when you say "That should give you 20 psi at 3300 rpm with the air flow to be making 450-500 hp" I think you are off on your required boost by a factor of ~3X.

Even if we assume you can get the intake charge temp down to a non-boosted value (105F) you get:
Stock engine: 500 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 105F, VE = .95, RPM 3300, disp 122 in^3
60.89 PSI boost required @ 40 lbs/min air flow

So by running at 105 F intake charge temp, you only reduce the required boost by ~3.5 PSI

Just trying to understand where you are coming from.
This is a fascinating topic for me.

On a related topic: I SWEAR that Toyota had a production MR2 with compound boost, but I can find no mention of it.
Perhaps it was only a prototype I read about in the 80-90s??
Anyway one of the concepts I found intriguing was that the SC output could be routed to the turbo while the car was idling to keep the turbo spun up.
I dont recall how they accomplished this but it was an interesting concept.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by justatroll

@Jaden

I am having some difficulty with some of your numbers.

Disclaimer - Some of these numbers are guesses (e.g. BSFC = .4), if you have better values, please provide them and I can recalculate

First lets verify that we have starting numbers right.

In stock form, the FA20 does:
Stock engine: 200 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 105F, VE = .95, RPM 6500, disp 122 in^3
0 PSI boost required @ 16 lbs/min air flow

But you mention:


Which doesnt make much sense.
for one example: to get 80-90 lbs of air flow in this engine (@3300 RPM) you would need ~130 PSI boost (or 62PSI @ 6500RPM)

My calcs show:
Stock engine: 500 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 130F, VE = .95, RPM 3300, disp 122 in^3
64.2 PSI boost required @ 40 lbs/min air flow

So when you say "That should give you 20 psi at 3300 rpm with the air flow to be making 450-500 hp" I think you are off on your required boost by a factor of ~3X.

Even if we assume you can get the intake charge temp down to a non-boosted value (105F) you get:
Stock engine: 500 hp, AFR 12, BSFC .40, charge temp 105F, VE = .95, RPM 3300, disp 122 in^3
60.89 PSI boost required @ 40 lbs/min air flow

So by running at 105 F intake charge temp, you only reduce the required boost by ~3.5 PSI

Just trying to understand where you are coming from.
This is a fascinating topic for me.

On a related topic: I SWEAR that Toyota had a production MR2 with compound boost, but I can find no mention of it.
Perhaps it was only a prototype I read about in the 80-90s??
Anyway one of the concepts I found intriguing was that the SC output could be routed to the turbo while the car was idling to keep the turbo spun up.
I dont recall how they accomplished this but it was an interesting concept.

I really wish I could understand this to see who is full of shit lol

Also, it wasn't production but HKS made a twincharge kit for the AW11 MR2 with a 4AGZE (S/C only from factory). A few have replicated the setup since HKS stopped making it

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by justatroll

@Jaden

On a related topic: I SWEAR that Toyota had a production MR2 with compound boost, but I can find no mention of it.
Perhaps it was only a prototype I read about in the 80-90s??
Anyway one of the concepts I found intriguing was that the SC output could be routed to the turbo while the car was idling to keep the turbo spun up.
I dont recall how they accomplished this but it was an interesting concept.

Close, not Toytoa but HKS. Back in the day they did their TRD stuff. They did play around with the compound "charged" not boost. Same thing different wording.

There was an HKS turbo kit for the SC. As I said before a few dudes I know have succesfully did a compound charged MkI MR2. Power wise it was not much if I recall it was 250-280whp. But they always had overheating problems. Then again when the MKII turbo came out. Many ditched the compound charge idea and did engine swaps.