SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by NJ10

Well, the 4 cars could grow with whatever rate the fr-s grew over those 2 years, but yeah, I want to know what Ogburn, Grogan, the Potockis, Oscar, Alan and other really good fr-s drivers would've done if they'd have got the brz when they bought the car. They're good enough nationally for the TRD allowances to make an impact.

Would they just bite the bullet and trade cars? Would they write to SCCA for allowances? or class changes?

I know it's hypothetical, but what would you do? Just trying to get perspective.

to you too!!

Can't say what they might have done, but part of my decision was the weight, the reports of greater tossability, and lower price. The BRZ for me would have been an outlet only if the FR-S interior was truly unbearable.

I spent all last year running with the Potockis at locals. They were on the springs, I was not. We traded finishing positions all year long. And a BRZ on MCS was always up at the top, among or ahead of us, too. FWIW.

There is some truth to Locust's suggestion that "The sky is falling" chatter from the subaru side of the debate does become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I know that if I JUST bought a BRZ, then read this forum, I wouldn't autocross it at all, because I'd be convinced I have to go to STX, and I don't have 8-10k in "well-why-not" money to do so.

[SeanRTR]

Originally Posted by Locust

Seriously though. How about someone out there go and get an auto-x course setup, get a fully prepped CS BRZ and CS FR-S, get the same damn driver, and have them drive the course 10 times each (alternating between runs) with each car? Let's compare the data and see what the difference really is. Also don't forget to let the driver run the course 3 times with a completely different car prior to that so we can rule out course knowledge bias as well.

Me and Nik J will do this eventually, but I think you need to change the wheels and tires too for it to be a fair comparison. The difference of full tread tires ('Stones), to 80 run worn tires is a larger change in performance than a rear bar and TRD springs.

[scirocco78]

Originally Posted by Locust

Seriously though. How about someone out there go and get an auto-x course setup, get a fully prepped CS BRZ and CS FR-S, get the same damn driver, and have them drive the course 10 times each (alternating between runs) with each car? Let's compare the data and see what the difference really is. Also don't forget to let the driver run the course 3 times with a completely different car prior to that so we can rule out course knowledge bias as well.

I did this at test and tune to shut up a local BRZ person complaining about my TRD FRS.
A couple of cars in between and 3 runs each car.
I was 0.2 slower in the BRZ on a 45 second course.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by scirocco78

I did this at test and tune to shut up a local BRZ person complaining about my TRD FRS.
A couple of cars in between and 3 runs each car.
I was 0.2 slower in the BRZ on a 45 second course.

But it's also not your car and your tires/gas level/setup could have all been different. A lot of factors to account for. To truly test it we need a neutral driver, completely filled gas tanks to ensure they're exactly the same, and brand new tires on each car. You're going to drive someone else's car differently than you'll drive your own.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by Locust

But it's also not your car and your tires/gas level/setup could have all been different. A lot of factors to account for. To truly test it we need a neutral driver, completely filled gas tanks to ensure they're exactly the same, and brand new tires on each car. You're going to drive someone else's car differently than you'll drive your own.

[scirocco78]

Originally Posted by Locust

But it's also not your car and your tires/gas level/setup could have all been different. A lot of factors to account for. To truly test it we need a neutral driver, completely filled gas tanks to ensure they're exactly the same, and brand new tires on each car. You're going to drive someone else's car differently than you'll drive your own.

I'm a car whore. I drive them all them all same
As for the rest. I think you're over thinking this.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by AlanLGuy

Ibut a lot of friends have a BRZ because it's simply a nicer car to daily drive and serve as a weekend warrior. The alcantara, heated seats and general fit and finish of the BRZ make it a better daily.

That's the thing though, the people who are worried about having leather and climate control for to keep it a nice daily driver are not the people winning trophies at Nationals. The performance difference between TRD and non-TRD is at the top level guys, not at the people competing for the bottom half. In other words, tell your friends to stop their belly-aching because it isn't making a shit bit of difference to them.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

That's the thing though, the people who are worried about having leather and climate control for to keep it a nice daily driver are not the people winning trophies at Nationals. The performance difference between TRD and non-TRD is at the top level guys, not at the people competing for the bottom half. In other words, tell your friends to stop their belly-aching because it isn't making a shit bit of difference to them.

I'll start letting anyone I hear discussing rules know they are only written for the top-level guys.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I'll start letting anyone I hear discussing rules know they are only written for the top-level guys.

Eh, i feel like the context has been lost. My point was that it is awful to hear people that just won't even race their BRZ because of the "crazy performance difference" to the TRD FR-S. But for most of those people, the difference is negligible (myself included). So yes, petition your asses off to get your car into a class that works better for you but don't stop competing just because you are butt-hurt that the FR-S guys got a slight advantage over you.

It kinda sucks that this thread has gone from being great info to pages and pages of

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I'll start letting anyone I hear discussing rules know they are only written for the top-level guys.

How many RX-8s that have won tours/nationals had a sunroof on them? Pointy end is pointy.

Read the rules. Figure out what about them works in your favor. THEN make decisions about how to spend money. I don't know about you, but I can't afford to spend money on something, only to then have to spend that money again to do it correctly.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

How many RX-8s that have won tours/nationals had a sunroof on them? Pointy end is pointy.

Read the rules. Figure out what about them works in your favor. THEN make decisions about how to spend money. I don't know about you, but I can't afford to spend money on something, only to then have to spend that money again to do it correctly.

I don't know. I have a BRZ Limited with nothing but a sway bar and a heavy exhaust, and I'm only mediocre at best. A BRZ owner feeling slighted, whether you agree or not, is 100% understandable. If someone is still going on about it, you aren't going to change their minds. Especially by telling them, essentially, "forget it, you aren't good enough to matter."

Take it from a guy that isn't good enough to matter - it still sucks.

[slyphen]

So im curious. I've been racing in the novice class for over half a season now, prior to that i've been to a hand full of autocross events. Currently i'm still rolling on stock tires, the only modification i have is coilover(yes i know it throw me into STX). While i wait for my wheels(TC105N) and tires(RE71R) to come in, my last 3-4 sessions has been fairly consistent, time wise. i've had instructors sit in the car with me, and they all say i'm over driving the tires. So my question is, for those who raced on stock tires and swapped to RE71Rs, how much time did you think you've shaved off on average? i know a buddy who was within half a sec of me leaped by 3-5sec after he swapped from stock shitty tires to RE71R.

Its getting frustrating that i can't get better time. i'm sure the driver(me) still have a lot of improvements to make, and i will keep doing so till my tires get here. areas i could work on at the moment is still looking ahead, braking early and finding the correct line.

[DocWalt]

Don't think about how much time gain there is going from stock tires to something sticky, you'll end up really frustrated if you throw the new tires on and don't go much faster and destroy the tires. Overdriving RE71Rs will wear them out VERY quickly (especially plowing into corners way too fast), so I'd suggest figuring out how to find the line between underdriving and overdriving now on the stock tires.

How are you comparing your times between autocross events?

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by slyphen

So my question is, for those who raced on stock tires and swapped to RE71Rs, how much time did you think you've shaved off on average?

I didn't even attempt to race on my stock tires. But after switching from Michelin Pilot Super Sports, I gained a good 2 seconds at least. My skills have improved during that time as well, but the the RE71R's are amazing tires.