Velox vs Raceseng Camber Plates

[ChrisSC300]

Thank you @CounterSpace Garage. I forgot @Racecomp Engineering had a street camber plate option. I will shoot them an email to see if they are compatible with my Bilstein B8's.

Been a huge fan of RCE. Quality products that actually produce on the Track. I have the Tarmac Springs and could not be happier.

BTW just ordered my first of many products from CSG, Winmax W3's. Looking forward to doing more business with y'all.

CSG and RCE are a huge asset to this community. We thank you.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by ChrisSC300

Thank you @CounterSpace Garage. I forgot @Racecomp Engineering had a street camber plate option. I will shoot them an email to see if they are compatible with my Bilstein B8's.

Been a huge fan of RCE. Quality products that actually produce on the Track. I have the Tarmac Springs and could not be happier.

BTW just ordered my first of many products from CSG, Winmax W3's. Looking forward to doing more business with y'all.

CSG and RCE are a huge asset to this community. We thank you.

Sounds good. You were in luck. They were the last set of W3s on the shelf for another couple of weeks. We'll be getting another batch in soon. Thank you!

[swift996]

Originally Posted by Infinity

Did you mean caster?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

No, not at all. It's camber that's the most important for the front struts, big improvements to grip during cornering will be found as you move past 2.5 degrees.

He may have been talking about caster, but I will take the ideal amount of camber over the ideal amount of caster any day of the week.

I'm not debating camber, obviously that's more impactful for corning contact area on a tire, I'm just saying proper caster set-up on this car is pretty key. Camber is certainly more important.

[Takumi788]

I purchased the Velox ones. They are a great product. No problems running stock dampers or the switch to RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers.

[VerusEric]

Both are great options in my opinion .

[Cybmx]

Forgive me if I sound dumb, but what if I rotate the velox camber plate 120 degree and installed it that way, wouldn't I gain camber and caster at the same time?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Cybmx

Forgive me if I sound dumb, but what if I rotate the velox camber plate 120 degree and installed it that way, wouldn't I gain camber and caster at the same time?

Hypothetically yes, the Velox plates are relatively symmetrical and rotating to achieve additional caster looks possible.

However after looking at the trigonometry you're basically ending up with instead of 100% camber adjustment a ratio of about 1:1.7 camber:caster gain. These aren't real numbers but ballpark you'd go from gaining say 2 degrees of camber to just 1.2 degrees while picking up 1.7 degrees of caster.

Most people feel that this car has adequate caster from the factory, it's not a Miata or S2k (and I presume Honda FWD cars) that comes with low caster (5 degrees or less I believe) and benefits by increasing the caster. OE comes to about 6 degrees and the Raceseng plates allow for an additional degree approximately.

Contrary to the Miata and S2k, with a Macpherson strut front in this car has a stronger need for static negative camber because it doesn't gain camber under compression like the double wishbone suspension cars mentioned above.

For reference, my camber plates give me -2.5 degrees, the last event I ran I had them maxed out at -3.6 degrees of camber per side (I also have camber bolts), and I believe my car would have been better if I had more camber in it. There's no way I'm even going to think about sacrificing camber for caster at this point.

I've read it's a common tradeoff on Miata and S2k's to balance your caster/camber, but they have a completely different suspension design that has different strengths and weaknesses from the FR-S/BRZ.

tl;dr The 86 with an additional -2 degrees of camber over stock will be significantly better (more grip) than the 86 with an additional 2 degrees of caster. By rotating the plates you are sacrificing camber for caster, likely to the point where you are negatively affecting your performance by not having enough camber for your front tires to operate properly during cornering.

[Cybmx]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hypothetically yes, the Velox plates are relatively symmetrical and rotating to achieve additional caster looks possible.

However after looking at the trigonometry you're basically ending up with instead of 100% camber adjustment a ratio of about 1:1.7 camber:caster gain. These aren't real numbers but ballpark you'd go from gaining say 2 degrees of camber to just 1.2 degrees while picking up 1.7 degrees of caster.

Most people feel that this car has adequate caster from the factory, it's not a Miata or S2k (and I presume Honda FWD cars) that comes with low caster (5 degrees or less I believe) and benefits by increasing the caster. OE comes to about 6 degrees and the Raceseng plates allow for an additional degree approximately.

Contrary to the Miata and S2k, with a Macpherson strut front in this car has a stronger need for static negative camber because it doesn't gain camber under compression like the double wishbone suspension cars mentioned above.

For reference, my camber plates give me -2.5 degrees, the last event I ran I had them maxed out at -3.6 degrees of camber per side (I also have camber bolts), and I believe my car would have been better if I had more camber in it. There's no way I'm even going to think about sacrificing camber for caster at this point.

I've read it's a common tradeoff on Miata and S2k's to balance your caster/camber, but they have a completely different suspension design that has different strengths and weaknesses from the FR-S/BRZ.

tl;dr The 86 with an additional -2 degrees of camber over stock will be significantly better (more grip) than the 86 with an additional 2 degrees of caster. By rotating the plates you are sacrificing camber for caster, likely to the point where you are negatively affecting your performance by not having enough camber for your front tires to operate properly during cornering.

Thanks for the detail explanation!

[Cybmx]

Well, I installed the velox camber plates this past weekend, alone with koni shocks and eibach springs which lowered the car about 1-1.5". I had the camber plates adjusted all the way in for max camber, only to discover that will result in the top end link studs rubbing the frame and binding in turning. I had to dial the camber back a little untill the end links clear the frame, and I ended up only gaining a little bit of camber

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can get more camber? I did a search and only found one similar case like mine, and the person hammered the frame in a little. Don't think that I want to do that..

[strat61caster]

Camber bolts.

Option 1: OE camber bolt is a small (14mm) bolt in the upper hole to replace the big one, push hub in, tighten, bit sloppy but cheap and legal for certain classification systems

Option 2: Look up camber bolts, every company sells you a 16mm eccentric bolt for the upper hole, this works, I got about an extra -1 degree out of it. I believe more adjustability comes from buying a 14mm eccentric bolt and putting it in the lower hole then taking the bolt that was in the lower hole and putting it in the upper hole. You can also buy both eccentric bolts and install both.

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81280

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81260

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18865

[Cybmx]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Camber bolts.

Option 1: OE camber bolt is a small (14mm) bolt in the upper hole to replace the big one, push hub in, tighten, bit sloppy but cheap and legal for certain classification systems

Option 2: Look up camber bolts, every company sells you a 16mm eccentric bolt for the upper hole, this works, I got about an extra -1 degree out of it. I believe more adjustability comes from buying a 14mm eccentric bolt and putting it in the lower hole then taking the bolt that was in the lower hole and putting it in the upper hole. You can also buy both eccentric bolts and install both.

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81280

http://www.spcalignment.com/index.ph...tion&pid=81260

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18865

Thanks. I have the bolts in the lower spot already, will try putting another set in the top too. My tires are already very close to the strut however, so I'm worrying the camber bolts on top might result in rubbing.

[gramicci101]

What wheels and tires are you running?

[Cybmx]

225/45/17 on 17x9 et 35. Will switch to 245/40/17 next set

[gramicci101]

With a 17x9+35 you shouldn't have too much of a problem clearing the spring perch. I know people running 17x9+42 that were ok before they switched to coils for performance reasons. Dial in what camber you can from the plate, and get the rest from camber bolts.