YES! AWD Turbo BRZ in the works for sure!!!

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by serith

Living in one of the snowiest cities in the North East, I would absolutely love if Subaru offered this car with AWD. Extra power is just a bonus.

What you want is a WRX or STI coupe...that just might happen in the near future....The BRZ will always be RWD....it is the successor to the AE86. What that car ever AWD?

[YoshiMike13]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Thanks, I love my Impreza... I have so much mods I wanna do to it... but not enough $$$$ to do em all lol


I think, I'm going off-topic, my bad lol

MAN I LOVE IT!!! nice car dude!

[WillieRX]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Me neither. Though I think a Turbo is a bad choice. A N/A 250hp or Supercharged 280hp would really rock.

Why would a turbo be a bad choice? It is a matter of opinion and preference, but I think the turbo would be better and more efficient than a supercharger, especially on small 4-cylinder engines.

[Turbowned]

This thread made me lose brain cells, I swear. Yes, let's ruin the sports car we've built by grafting an AWD system onto it, thereby trashing it's balance, center of gravity and weight distribution, and try to compensate for it's reduced handling capabilities by adding more horsepower. Brilliant.

Want a light AWD turbo coupe? Buy an Audi TT and leave the BRZ alone, please! Aluminum space frame, 3,153lb curb weight, 211hp, 258lb/ft, 0-60 in 5.3sec, 23-31mpg. $38k base price. Hell, I'll sell you one myself!

[YoshiMike13]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

This thread made me lose brain cells, I swear. Yes, let's ruin the sports car we've built by grafting an AWD system onto it, thereby trashing it's balance, center of gravity and weight distribution, and try to compensate for it's reduced handling capabilities by adding more horsepower. Brilliant.

Want a light AWD turbo coupe? Buy an Audi TT and leave the BRZ alone: 3200lbs, 211hp, 258lb/ft, 7spd dual clutch gearbox. $39k base price. Hell, I'll sell you one myself!

You sir, are a brilliant man. Well said by the way

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by WillieRX

Why would a turbo be a bad choice? It is a matter of opinion and preference, but I think the turbo would be better and more efficient than a supercharger, especially on small 4-cylinder engines.

It has to do with transitional response; basically getting on-off-on the throttle. The BRZ chassis is light and nimble and really shines in the corners. In a car like this, you want a very responsive throttle so you finely control the torque to the rear wheels.

Turbos are great for sustained power delivery. They're very efficient and deliver a lot of power. However, because they are driven by the exhaust, they are dependent on on engine load to function. When you lift off the throttle, engine load drops which decelerates the impeller, and pressure is bled from the intake either back to the low-pressure side of the intake (via BPV) or the atmosphere (via BOV). When you step back onto the throttle, the turbo must spin back up (lag) and recharge the intake to get it back to pressure (response).

Now there is a way around this, called Anti-Lag. Anti-Lag delays the firing of the spark plug until the exhaust valve is open. That sends a shockwave of detonating fuel into the exhaust and keeps the turbo spinning. Then, if you eliminate the BPV/BOV you can have instant response. But that's VERY hard on a turbo. It's a life of thousands of miles rather than tens of thousands.

A Supercharger on the other hand, is driven by the engine. The engine's own rotating mass keeps the supercharger spinning when the pedal is lifted, so it's always ready to deliver boost. And while a Supercharger does often have a BPV, the types of superchargers you often see from the factory usually have them internally and after the throttle plate. So it has much less volume to repressurize, which it's able to do immediately thanks to it being constantly driven by the engine.

Now on a centrifugal supercharger, the type that looks like a turbo, the transitional response can be dulled a bit due to an external BPV and more piping. But it's not as bad as a turbo because the supercharger is already spinning at a rate to deliver full boost.

If this were another AWD car, turbo would be fine as an AWD car can get onto the throttle earlier and stay on it which is what a turbo loves. But because this car is RWD and requires more balance, I feel a turbo is not the best match. Ideally I'd like to see a twin screw blower in place of the intake manifold with an integrated air/water intercooler; essentially a scaled-down ersion of the ZR-1 or GT500 blowers. But a centrifugal supercharger would be an acceptable compromise.

So I'm hoping we won't be seeing a turbo BRZ.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by WillieRX

Why would a turbo be a bad choice? It is a matter of opinion and preference, but I think the turbo would be better and more efficient than a supercharger, especially on small 4-cylinder engines.

Always have and always will prefer a turbo on a 4 banger. If it were a V8 then that can go either way. Not really a fan of S/C on 4 cyl. though.

Generally speaking, there is usually a drastic difference in power and the way power is delivered on the 4 banger turbos vs 4 banger S/C. I would gladly take the significant power difference over the minimal decrease in throttle response.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

What you don't understand that SOME people want a small relatively light turbo AWD COUPE?

Ok.

Go buy a 2.5RS, or an Audi TT, or a Carrera 4, or an R32, or G37x, or...

If a person wants an STI, that means they can afford a car that's $33-37k and thus can afford those cars (either new or used). Sure not all those are turbo but all are fast. I know the G37x isn't small but you get the point.


Zigzag, I get the point. I understand what you want, what I don't understand is WHY you want it from the BRZ. Wouldn't you want a platform designed for what you want instead? (rhetorical, as those options already exist)

So perhaps a new thread should be made that's titled: I don't really want a BRZ, I really want Subaru to make a car like.... (a 2.5RS STI?)

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Ok.
Zigzag, I get the point. I understand what you want, what I don't understand is WHY you want it from the BRZ. Wouldn't you want a platform designed for what you want instead? (rhetorical, as those options already exist)

You obviously failed reading comprehension in school huh?

There is no way you can read any of my posts in this thread and conclude that I am one of the people arguing for an AWD BRZ.




I've said a bunch of times that those type of cars don't sell well at the price point Subaru would have to bring it in at and the number of people who would buy it does not justify the cost to modifying the platform for AWD.

What I did say was that people like you and others can't just say to the Turbo AWD BRZ crowd, " Subaru already makes that ... or just buy an STi", because the STi and BRZ are not the same type of vehicles (wagon/sedan vs small coupe) and blindly ignores what they are asking for ie. small, light, turbo, awd, and coupe.

[WillieRX]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

So I'm hoping we won't be seeing a turbo BRZ.

Very well stated arguments, I do see where your coming from. And good description too, I do understand the difference and applications in a turbo vs supercharger, but can be helpful for those who don't know.

However, it seems that the supercharger would just create more mechanical load on a small displacement 4-cylinder engine, making it work significantly harder than it would with a turbo.

If its a handling/powerband issue (using my wrx as an example), I am running usually around 3rd - 4th gear on the mountain roads (2nd gear less often). Very little am I out of the rpm power band (lower end usually, 2500-3500 rpm), in which the turbo responds very quickly (minimal lag) when I need it to. Even though the WRX it is an AWD car, I don't see the difference with the RWD vehicles in this particular example. When i used to have my Corvette (NA) and drove it on the mountain roads, I stayed in the RPM power band (lower end again, 2000 RPM - 3000 RPM).

So, if the BRZ was turboed, I can't see myself being out of the rpm power band. If one stays int he lower end of the power band, the turbo would have very minimal lag. But this is only one instance, I love driving in the mountains, and familiarize myself with various routes out here. And not everyone does what I do.

I hope i didn't misinterpret what you were writing. I do see where you are coming from. But i don't think the supercharger would be ideal on a 4-cylinder engine, particularly small displacement.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by WillieRX

However, it seems that the supercharger would just create more mechanical load on a small displacement 4-cylinder engine, making it work significantly harder than it would with a turbo.

True, the drag on the engine is much higher with a supercharger. But the trade off is worth it in my opinion.

I own an STI and a WRX. The STI is just stage 1, power-wise, but the WRX is a full stage 2. With the WRX's little donut-sized turbo, it spools nearly instantly. But it still doesn't have the throttle response that a N/A engine does. As powerful as the STI is, it feels downright sleepy compared to the BRZ.

I think blunting the engine's response would be counter-productive to the BRZ's chassis.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

There is no way you can read any of my posts in this thread and conclude that I am one of the people arguing for an AWD BRZ.

Good catch. I don't usually see people defend a position unless they are also proponents of said position.

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

What I did say was that people like you and others can't just say to the Turbo AWD BRZ crowd, " Subaru already makes that ... or just buy an STi", because the STi and BRZ are not the same type of vehicles (wagon/sedan vs small coupe) and blindly ignores what they are asking for ie. small, light, turbo, awd, and coupe.

Disclaimer: I will be using the word "you" in the pluralistic sense along with the singular sense.

I'm not just saying they already make that, there's more to it. Here we are arguing and each of us are on a different topic that overlap. So let's be clear.

You're supporting the intrinsic desire of: small, light, turbo, awd, and coupe. It seems as if you're trying to NOT defend the argument of wanting to turbo and AWD the BRZ, but are defending the person's want of small, light, turbo, awd, and coupe.

I'm arguing 2 points:
1: small, light, turbo, awd, and coupe: already exists. Audi TT, 996 Turbo, 2.5RS
2: Defining the "Want". If you want the BRZ to have AWD and a turbo then what you want isn't a BRZ. What you want is what you (zigzag) are arguing for and this we agree.

Wanting the BRZ to become the "small, light, turbo, awd coupe" this theoretical demographic desires is logically ridiculous. Why would you want these things out of a chassis that is not designed for these things?

If I "want" a RWD light sports car, that doesn't mean I want to relocate the engine to the back of my CRX, it means I want a car that is not the CRX. Do you see how the arguments overlap and we can round and round for all of eternity?

[WillieRX]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

True, the drag on the engine is much higher with a supercharger. But the trade off is worth it in my opinion.

I own an STI and a WRX. The STI is just stage 1, power-wise, but the WRX is a full stage 2. With the WRX's little donut-sized turbo, it spools nearly instantly. But it still doesn't have the throttle response that a N/A engine does. As powerful as the STI is, it feels downright sleepy compared to the BRZ.

I think blunting the engine's response would be counter-productive to the BRZ's chassis.

I guess im also using the butt comparison. I have driven many coupes, but the coupe I have driven the most was my '94 Corvette, and the WRX is a completely different car than the BRZ. I have never driven a BRZ either. And probably will not be able to test drive one for a while due to very high demand.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by WillieRX

I guess im also using the butt comparison. I have driven many coupes, but the coupe I have driven the most was my '94 Corvette, and the WRX is a completely different car than the BRZ. I have never driven a BRZ either. And probably will not be able to test drive one for a while due to very high demand.

The salesman I worked with has an SWP Limited MT he pre-ordered before there was even an MSRP set. He took me for a ride, pulled over in a parking lot, then asked if I WANTED TO DRIVE IT!!! Let me just say this, it's amazing. Engine response is immediate, handling is direct, and the car is stable as all hell. Adding a turbo and AWD would ruin the cars inherent balance and character.