FRS vs Genesis coupe

[gled21]

Originally Posted by RichardsFRS

What about the ugly mustash. If the FRS had that it would totally turn me off from the car. I would have walked right past it. And that's my opinion if the BRZ. The front end ruins the whole look

Also I've stated before if no FRS there wouldn't be a BRZ. And BRZ owners think they own a Subaru. It's not a Subaru not a real one anyway it's a Toyota 86 with a boxer engine, the only part of it that's Subaru. Face it, like us you drive gt86's and if you read any readits, the real Subaru guys don't claim the BRZ as part of them

No offense really

Fair enough, to each of his own on the looks about the mustache*. However it is bold to claim the car is not a subaru. Then what makes a "real" subaru? That it is AWD and has a flat 4 with UEL headers? Im not going to argue it is not a Toyota bc its is obvious the car shares 2 manufacturers. One just happened to release a twin car because it was a huge success. Im sorry saying it is more one manufacturer than the other is just subjective and borderline fallacious. Also I guess then I am the one counter example here because the "real" (whatever this means) subaru guys in AZ identify a BRZ as a subaru as well, which it is not excluding the toyota aspect. The main claim I intended to propose was that it would be wise to get a BRZ to AVOID the conflict of a particular interest group since I purposely made the claim that the GT-86 community were more neutral about the manufacturer split rather than the Subaru community. But it seems not everyone in the GT-86 interest group feels the same way, in which case either choice you will have the same predicament. So to answer Celica00, it seems you were right that it wasnt a solid argument after all and yes i do agree the argument between both is silly. However to conclude the reasons I stated are why I chose the BRZ, but naturally some may disagree.

[gled21]

Originally Posted by ajh88

LOL how do Subaru owners get off on brand recognition? All they've ever made are commuter cars with the occasional turbocharger attached to it. Outside of rally they have no motorsports quals, no heritage of sports cars, no halo cars... Any performance car they make is compromise car. Toyota sports cars > Subaru sports cars.

BRZ gt300 which if you keep up with the series is pretty respectable and also generations of WRX racecars, but they intended to keep wrx on the dirt which won championships (Colin Mcrae). Which lets not forget Team Castrol's Celica cheated for a whole season bypassing the power restriction to win.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/5-r...eing-too-good/

[wbradley]

^^Still, the concept for this vehicle, the formula and format were all Toyota. FHI initially rejected the project but Toyota wanted a boxe engine to lower the centre of gravity, and they happen to own 17% of FHI and due to slumping sales of Subaru kei cars there was excess production capacity available. Subaru had no intention to get into the RWD car business worldwide.

Guaranteed Toyota could have done this project without FHI but not vice versa. Toyota funded the project too BTW. They could have worked with Mazda but then it would have been an MX5, or Nissan but Im glad they didnt.

Subaru is an AWD brand. They dont have MR2, LFA, AE86. They have econoboxes with AWD and performance added on for a halo version of their bread and butter commuter models. The twins couldnt be further from the Subaru MO. So if you want to argue Subaru has more equipped models readily available thats true, but the car has way more Toyota DNA in its design, and Scion is Toyotas...scion.

[gled21]

Originally Posted by wbradley

^^Still, the concept for this vehicle, the formula and format were all Toyota. FHI initially rejected the project but Toyota wanted a boxe engine to lower the centre of gravity, and they happen to own 17% of FHI and due to slumping sales of Subaru kei cars there was excess production capacity available. Subaru had no intention to get into the RWD car business worldwide.

Guaranteed Toyota could have done this project without FHI but not vice versa. Toyota funded the project too BTW. They could have worked with Mazda but then it would have been an MX5, or Nissan but Im glad they didnt.

Subaru is an AWD brand. They dont have MR2, LFA, AE86. They have econoboxes with AWD and performance added on for a halo version of their bread and butter commuter models. The twins couldnt be further from the Subaru MO. So if you want to argue Subaru has more equipped models readily available thats true, but the car has way more Toyota DNA in its design, and Scion is Toyotas...scion.

I agree Subaru isnt known for dipping into this market, but who really is the winner here? Seems to me if Toyota designed the entire thing and subaru supplied the heart then wouldnt Subaru achieve a higher net benefit? That is besides the point tho, making the argument that Toyota thought about it first doesnt make it any less subaru considering one of the main philosophy's of this car required a boxer engine to acquire such a pristine handling car. What youre saying about design is correct however the engineering was Subaru and because of that the car is middle ground. Side note, sometimes engineering isnt always about big numbers and sports car lineage. This car was more about appealing to its market which has been dormant for years and is something Subaru excels in considering its very loyal consumers.

[LOLS2K]

I couldn't resist...

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by gled21

I agree Subaru isnt known for dipping into this market, but who really is the winner here? Seems to me if Toyota designed the entire thing and subaru supplied the heart then wouldnt Subaru achieve a higher net benefit? That is besides the point tho, making the argument that Toyota thought about it first doesnt make it any less subaru considering one of the main philosophy's of this car required a boxer engine to acquire such a pristine handling car. What youre saying about design is correct however the engineering was Subaru and because of that the car is middle ground. Side note, sometimes engineering isnt always about big numbers and sports car lineage. This car was more about appealing to its market which has been dormant for years and is something Subaru excels in considering its very loyal consumers.

Don't be surprised if the next generation is an inline 4. In some ways it would improve the vehicle, especially in terms of maintenance. The S2000 handled pretty well without a boxer.

[RichardsFRS]

BRZ to AVOID the conflict of a particular interest group

I don't give enough kraps to go the route of evading someones opinions of me. People will think what they think, just as I think the mustache is the killer of the this car and in re-design it needs to be fixed.

Then again, I'm over 40 and cynical and peer pressure wore off a loooong time ago.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by gled21

I agree Subaru isnt known for dipping into this market, but who really is the winner here? Seems to me if Toyota designed the entire thing and subaru supplied the heart then wouldnt Subaru achieve a higher net benefit? That is besides the point tho, making the argument that Toyota thought about it first doesnt make it any less subaru considering one of the main philosophy's of this car required a boxer engine to acquire such a pristine handling car. What youre saying about design is correct however the engineering was Subaru and because of that the car is middle ground. Side note, sometimes engineering isnt always about big numbers and sports car lineage. This car was more about appealing to its market which has been dormant for years and is something Subaru excels in considering its very loyal consumers.

Stylish RWD tuner cars aren't Subaru's market though.

[gled21]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

Stylish RWD tuner cars aren't Subaru's market though.

It is now, and will be for coming generations according to the CEO

[GeorgeJFrick]

IMHO.

I went from Hyundai Accent to Hyundai Tiburon to Hyundai Genesis Coupe... and nope'd before I left the dealership. The interior is way too luxury car to me; I didn't feel attached to the controls at all. The steering wheel is just kind of floating out there. I don't need a boat for a center console.

I ended up test driving veloster/gen-coupe/brz/fr-s back to back in the same day and I went home with the BRZ.

Here's the scoop from a Hyundai fan boy (still recovering). Nobody is talking about how long the transmission and electrical systems will last. Find an old Tiburon/Accent that doesn't blow through sensors/headlights/etc constantly. Transmission = tin can. First time I let the clutch out on the FR-S (drove it first), I was done with Hyundai.

[Twin4Life]

My 2014 3.8GT has been rock solid. Comparing these two cars, despite being close each in pricing, is a gamble. One is a pseudo, lux sport coupe that excels in GT areas, made for road trips, the other is a canyon carving scalpel.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Don't be surprised if the next generation is an inline 4. In some ways it would improve the vehicle, especially in terms of maintenance. The S2000 handled pretty well without a boxer.

And maybe with front double wishbones too.

Yes since Mazda has already figured out how to lower the hoodline with an inline 4 in the new Miata. That pop-up eject hood mechanism is just pure genius.

Ten years ago there was really no other way to make a low slung front engine car without going with either a boxer or rotary. I wondered for a long time why Subaru didn't take advantage of the boxer engine height and lower the hoodline, but instead they put the intercooler on top with a big hood scoop blocking the view.

Just open up the hood of the twins and observe that ridiculous pedestrian safety gap measured from the top of the engine to the top of the fenders. Yet the car still sits fairly low by today's standards (my hand can touch the tarmac with the door opened while sitting inside) with fairly good forward visibility. Kudos to Toyota for even thinking about this back in 2005ish when Honda completely lost the plot by then.

Originally Posted by gled21

That is besides the point tho, making the argument that Toyota thought about it first doesnt make it any less subaru considering one of the main philosophy's of this car required a boxer engine to acquire such a pristine handling car.

In terms of low center of gravity, notice how Toyota never put the NC Miata in any of their comparison charts (because the CoG is even lower on that car with an inline 4 lol).

If you ask me, the 86/BRZ feels very Toyota inside and out if you don't look at the engineering aspects of the individual components like chassis and suspension (which is very Subaru). The original purpose of using the boxer engine wasn't really about pristine handling (this is just all marketing afterthought imo) as much as Toyota wanted a low slung design.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by krayzie

In terms of low center of gravity, notice how Toyota never put the NC Miata in any of their comparison charts (because the CoG is even lower on that car with an inline 4 lol).

I think you mean NA/NB Miata. The NC Miata's CG height was 19.0", but the NA/NB generations were calculated to be around 17.7".

GTI: 22.0"
JCW Mini: 21.0"
Mustang GT: 21.0"
Evo X MR: 20.5"
370Z: 20.0"
350Z: 19.3"
NC Miata: 19.0"
S2000: 18.7"
FR-S: 18.1"
Cayman R: 18.0"
LFA: 17.8"
NB Miata: 17.7"
C5 Corvette: 17.7"
360 Modena: 17.6"
911 GT3: 17.4"

[MrDinkleman]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I wondered for a long time why Subaru didn't take advantage of the boxer engine height and lower the hoodline, but instead they put the intercooler on top with a big hood scoop blocking the view.

Before that, that space was used for the spare tire.

Originally Posted by krayzie

If you ask me, the 86/BRZ feels very Toyota inside and out if you don't look at the engineering aspects of the individual components like chassis and suspension (which is very Subaru).

I agree; while I was driving home from the dealership, within the first 20minutes there was something so eerily familiar about it even though I only spent all of 10minutes in the "test drive". Then it hit me that I felt like I was driving in my 1979 Celica...