Honda J series v6 swap?

[venturaII]

Jezus Christ...


The guys at HaSport (who are the ones who came up with the NA/NB Miata/J series swap) weighed a J32 WITH FWD manual transmission and accessories, and it came to 550 pounds. Keep in mind that the Honda weight ALSO included axles and factory iron manifolds.


civicdrivr also weighed a J series 6MT and that came to ~110lbs. So, there goes YOUR 'spot on' weight argument.

[venturaII]

Hey, here's an idea - instead of taking the uncreative approach and trying to shoot holes in everything and muddying up the thread, why not use that energy to come up with a way to make it actually work? Or would that be too much thought? I mean, seriously - any dolt could come up with some compelling reasons not to change spark plugs, let alone swap a motor...

[Summerwolf]

J series: 550 pounds
Different intake manifold configurations result in small variances in weight, but most 3.2L J-series engines measure relatively the same. Larger 3.5L and 3.7L engines feature longer-stroke, heavier crankshafts, and larger-diameter sleeves, which results in roughly 25 pounds of additional weight.

Fine print from our lawyers: All weights include engine, transmission, intake and exhaust manifolds, axles, and major accessories. All weights are approximate. All weights include manual transmissions only.



You didn't even click the link did you?


So when you take that in to account and decide on a transmission / add transmission weight to this swapped vehicle. Custom stuff etc, it is either a wash or very close in weight. That was the point being made. When you can buy aluminum block LS motors for dirt cheap and they are prevalent PLUS all the support from the thousands of swapped cars, limitless parts and products for every situation... it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take a pedestrian v6 with little to no benefit. There are better options.

[venturaII]

So, all you've done is confirm that the 550 pound TOTAL DRIVETRAIN weight I quoted was correct. Did YOU subtract the weight of the 110 pound transmission, iron manifolds, power steering pump, etc? I doubt it, or else you'd realize that the J32 is a fairly light motor. Certainly no heavier than an LS, and possibly within a few pounds of the FA20, which is no lightweight itself. So, weight remains the same, power goes up to the 300 range, and you aren't breaking stuff all the time. A boneyard J32 with harness is going to be cheaper than any LS1/2/3 simply because it's NOT an LS. Yeah, you could get an iron block LS for less, or cobble one together with your brother-in-law's friend's sister's boyfriend's sketchy used parts collection, but that's not what we're talking about. A 300 horse 60 degree V6 with Honda reliability IS the right option.


Again, I'm tired of the dullards who can't figure out how to make things work. Any idiot can come up with reasons NOT to do something. I left the Mercedes community for just that same reason...what a bunch of armchair mechanics.

[venturaII]

You're basically pissing up a rope if you're going to argue weight - the swap adds 40 pounds to the front of an NA Miata. Case closed there. Affordability is also a non-issue, as this is becoming a popular swap with Mazdas for the same reasons I listed earlier - reliable, compact, light and affordable. ALL more so than an LS. If you want more than 300 or so horsepower, then the LS becomes more appealing. I don't, so there's no point.

[Summerwolf]

http://acurazine.com/forums/performa...eights-913909/


Engine assemblies minus:
Intake manifold
Exhaust manifolds
EGR valve
Flywheel
Engine mounts
Wire harness
All accessories

J37A2: 298 lbs
J35A8: 296 lbs

For the LS I searched LS1 and it made a lot of various weights ranging from 350 to 400 depending. The 400 was without the clutch and manifolds but wet weight, intake, accessories ready to drop in. Its not as drastic a difference as you think. As far as pricing.... I am willing to bet anything LS related would be cheaper than anything J series related from what I'm seeing on the acura / Honda sites. Plus the reliability and functionality / tunability of the LS.... its just a better swap. In every regard except being unique.

[venturaII]

Sounds like you're in the wrong section of this forum.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Again, I'm tired of the dullards who can't figure out how to make things work. Any idiot can come up with reasons NOT to do something. I left the Mercedes community for just that same reason...what a bunch of armchair mechanics.

So when is the big J series swap happening?

[venturaII]

No time soon. I only have 30K miles on my car, so I'm in no rush and have no pressing need. When that time comes, I plan to have everything in order. Anyone planning a swap because they HAVE to isn't going to have a whole lot of success the first time around. I've been down both sides of this street and know which way I prefer to go.

[Draco-REX]

Not trying to start an argument, but just some numbers:

A wet LS1 weighs 385lbs.

As for size:

LS vs DOHC V8:


LS vs DOHC I4:




I fully realize that some people truly love a particular brand, and in that case, I understand the choice of a Honda V6. But in all practicality, I think the LS is a better choice in this instance.

[venturaII]

I'm not 'in love' with Honda. It simply meets my criteria, and nothing more. I don't need a V8, nor do I want one.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by venturaII

I'm not 'in love' with Honda. It simply meets my criteria, and nothing more. I don't need a V8, nor do I want one.

And none of us are attempting to discourage a Honda v6 swap, myself included. I am actually encouraging you, and I have quite a bit of information.

Every tuning decision amounts to a set of objectives and a list of personal preferences. The fact that there are better engines is just that. A fact. It doesn't have it's own opinion, and it shouldn't discourage you. Facts are innocent things. It doesn't have to be the "best" engine swap, it can just be a "reasonable" one. It doesn't matter.

Let me clarify what I have been saying in a few simple statements:

1) Most of your assumptions about the various advantages are mistaken.

2) Most of your assumptions about fitment are likely to be mistaken.

3) If you want a Honda V6 in this car, regardless of other concerns, height is going to be your primary inhibiting factor, as it has been with all other narrow V-engines with the intake manifold on top.

4) All the other 60-degree V6 engines fit, until you put on the intake manifold.

Most transverse engines, honda V6's included, will have the throttle body at the back of the engine when you mount it longitudinally. This means very strange intake piping or a custom intake manifold. Or, some tomfoolery with flipping the manifold around. Fortunately, the way forward has already been paved for you. There are plenty of V6 S2000's with solutions to that little problem.

The accessory drive will need tweaking if you do the above.

The J-series barely fits the height limit in an S2000. That car has more vertical room than ours, but (counterintuitively), has a lower hoodline. Packaging concerns are important, and the front crossmember in our car is a significant height impediment.

I have never said flatly that a J engine won't fit. I have said that I seriously doubt that it will fit, and I stand by that statement. I would bet money on it, based on the fact that no other 60-degree V6 has been anywhere close to low enough, after the intake goes on. I have seen several unlikely 90-degree engines fit, however, including the comparatively massive Ford Coyote engine. My money is on a C-swap being more successful, but more power to you if you succeed in either endeavor.

There are 2 Toyota V6 swaps running that I know of. Point of that statement, is it's possible, with enough money, to make anything fit. Both have clearancing on the crossmember, custom intake manifolds, and custom oil pans.

Also, that quote is comedy gold.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Let me clarify what I have been saying in a few simple statements:

1) Most of your assumptions about the various advantages are mistaken.

And let me clarify what I've been saying over and over: I don't want an LS V8, nor do I want a C series motor. Your assumptions about their various advantages are moot, because of this. I really can't think of any way to explain it more clearly, and insisting I'd be better with a different option really doesn't make you seem to be the great reader. There's no need to go any further with this particular discussion.

[Sideways&Smiling]

I know Honda experimented with a V6 prototype S2000 before discontinuing it, but, honestly, I don't see the appeal. It's going to weigh more, and as far as I know, isn't known for being an amazing engine or anything. Most S2000 owners have seen the light and are all turboing the F20C/F22C engines now... I mean, if you can hit 700HP on them without too much trouble, why bother with a swap?

Do what you'd like, of course, but it wouldn't be high up on my list of engines to drop into an FR-S/BRZ.