Lexus LF-LC / LC500 thread

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...un-flat-tires/

Imagine having to replace those suckers! Wear out the tires and trade the car in to save some cash.

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Doesn't look too much different from the normal LC. I have a feeling the real LC-F will look a little more aggressive.

[Guff]

Goodness, I just can't get over how ugly it is. Here's to hoping they wise up and change the roof, pillars, belt line, and rear end... :P

Anyone taking bets on weight? The RC-F is quite the lump, can't imagine this will be too far behind...

[Re_Invention]

It's an interesting design. Imagining the car with nothing in the wheel wells - just body and glass.. it's a neat '3D' object (for lack of better words). I'm only disappointed by the interior - they should have taken some more liberties with the motif, like how Acura did with the NSX. This feels like what Audi did with the R8. Too much entry levelness carry over chokes the cache. Love the 'time stretch' in the spindle grill, and I dig the mirroring exhaust pipes among other design quirks - wonderful mental tricks.

This is one of the best internet-age avant-garde car designs in my opinion. Definitely appreciated for what it is.

Regarding performance - at this point and in this class, that's a bit silly. The d*** swinging contest and stat racing is trivial but continues to tickle the primitive need for conquest. Great for marketing and gives R&D something to do but... really - ehh. I get it, just don't care for it. The Bentley-category-car has taken this long to trickle into upper-middle class segment as it's emerged over the past 30 years globally. Good to have choices if anything. I still love me some technocracy, so I'm putting my powerball money down on an i8 or NSX but I could see this pandering as a great Merc alternative for the more 'sensible' shoppers.

And as a broke-a$$ it gives me a greater appreciation for the baby-brothers to have 3/5 the style for 1/3 the cost; the RC350, TT, Cayman, 435i, etc.

[EAGLE5]

What a fugly POS. What the hell were they thinking? It's like they hired a video game car designer to make a real car.

[vh_supra26]

Lexus has revealed the 2017 LC 500 coupe at the Detroit Auto Show, marking the end of the speculation and the beginning of a new chapter for the brand.

There’s plenty of information to get through, so let’s start off with the official press release and photos — live photos will be posted to the site following the show, but you can always follow along on our social channels: Lexus News Live Twitter account for frequent updates, Instagram, and Facebook.

• Alluring, expressively designed luxury coupe defines a new era for the global luxury brand
• The coupe’s styling, performance, and craftsmanship help position the vehicle as one of Lexus’ flagship products
• LC 500 utilizes the brand’s new architecture that promises enhanced dynamic capability and performance
• A symbol of an evolving vehicle development culture that embraces heightened collaboration between Design and Engineering teams

DETROIT, Jan. 11, 2016—When the Lexus LF-LC Concept debuted at the 2012 North American International Auto Show, the press, loyal customers, and enthusiasts wondered if the concept’s arresting styling and dramatic proportions could ever evolve into a production 2+2 coupe. Today, four years after the debut of the breakthrough concept that inspired it, Lexus has revealed the all-new LC 500 luxury coupe. This provocative, athletic flagship coupe makes the strongest statement yet about Lexus’ future product direction.



The past five years have seen Lexus evolve rapidly with the creation of the luxury brand’s globally-focused organization, Lexus International. Exciting new models involving elevated levels of emotional styling and dynamic driving characteristics such as NX, RC, and IS have also helped Lexus’ brand shift with consumers. Akio Toyoda has been at the center of the Lexus global expansion, personally driving a heightened level of collaboration among design, engineering and marketing teams to help build a luxury brand better suited to meet the needs of the next generation of consumers.

“The LC 500 has been an important product for Lexus and me personally,” said Akio Toyoda, Chief Branding Officer and Master Driver for Lexus. “A few years ago, we decided to guide the future of the brand with products that had more passion and distinction in the luxury market. This flagship luxury coupe’s proportions, stunning design and performance make a strong statement about our brand’s emotional direction and will grow the Lexus luxury appeal globally.”

Design and Engineering Teams United


Beyond its styling and impactful performance, the new LC 500 serves as a symbol of the achievement that can result from heightened collaboration between design and engineering groups and their commitment to help overcome each other’s hurdles. When Akio Toyoda challenged these development groups to produce this special car, it meant surpassing many manufacturing, design, material, and dynamic obstacles that could typically compromise a vehicle’s targets or design vision.

The LC 500 was driven by a strong, appealing fundamental design target (LF-LC), and engineering teams worked tirelessly to find new solutions to maintain as much of the concept in the production car as possible. Likewise, vehicle designers were very involved from the earliest stages of the dynamic development process to understand the engineering targets and collaborate with design viewpoints and potential solutions. With LC 500, additional levels of prototype vehicle build also allowed both teams to better study design or engineering ideas and refine key elements. For Lexus, the LC 500 project became much more than simply the development of a new coupe. The LC 500, with the shift in engineering processes and design ideologies it represents, symbolizes the beginning of a new phase for the Lexus brand.


“Design and engineering sides worked together on issues and obstacles that were overcome one by one. I feel we achieved something greater than simply preserving the spirit of the concept’s design,” said Chief Engineer Koji Sato.

Exterior Design


At first glance, it becomes apparent that the engineering and design team’s collaboration was highly successful, considering how much of the LF-LC’s design ideology the team was able to transfer into the new LC 500. The new production model shares many of the key design elements, proportions and visual dynamism of the concept car that inspired it. The LC 500’s visual appeal is defined by an athletic aerodynamic shape. It features sensual curves, emotional forms, an available flowing carbon-fiber roof (glass roof standard), helping create a low, wide imposing stance that comes together for a highly functional, passionate package.



The LC 500’s front fascia features a powerful interpretation of Lexus’ distinctive grille, bordered by chrome on three sides and a radical new 3D mesh design that varies its visual tension. The “L”-shaped daytime running lights rest below a new Triple LED headlamp unit, specially designed to include one of the industry’s thinnest projectors enabling a low hood with a short front overhang. Functional venting also plays into the LC 500’s exterior design to help improve aerodynamic stability and cooling.

The car’s athletic profile is characterized by its fast, sloped roofline, its wind-cutting silhouette, a long 2,870 mm (113 inches) wheelbase with compact front 920 mm ( 36.2 inches) and rear 970 mm ( 38.2 inches) overhangs and low hood height. The sexy curves and flowing lines maintain a consistent tension in sheetmetal through to the rear end that features slimly designed, multi- layered tail lamps with a unique lighting effect that helps convey a sequential L motif. A rear diffuser and available active rear spoiler also help manage airflow during performance driving. It rides on machined cast aluminum 20-in. or available 21-in. forged aluminum wheels.

Interior Design


The interior design of the LC 500 is influenced by the dynamic luxury theme of the exterior with a layout that is both cockpit-focused and elegant. The coupe’s driving position was calibrated to invite spirited, sporting driving, and help develop easier confidence with a more intuitive control layout. In fact, for LC 500, the driver’s hip point was engineered to be as close as possible to the vehicle’s Cg (Center of gravity) where feedback from the car is the most communicative to the driver.

The front seats offer excellent support and comfort for long drives while available sport seats offer additional bolstering and lateral support during cornering. Lexus engineers put considerable effort into creating an engaging yet seductive atmosphere for the driver, focusing on details such as the size and angle of the steering wheel, the feel and positioning of magnesium alloy paddle shifters, and available supple leather and Alcantara seating surfaces. The LC 500’s exquisite door panels, center console and dash pad structures feature elements of Lexus’ world-renowned, detail-obsessed Takumi craftsmanship in their finish.



“At an early stage, the designers collaborated with the engineers to understand their image for the LC 500’s driving dynamics, and they incorporated this into the design,” said Tadao Mori, the chief designer of the LC 500. “For example, we gave serious consideration to where the driver’s eyes would focus, and designed the surface shape in that area to help support a driver’s mindset. This project was one of the first times that designers were closely involved in the dynamic engineering development so we could understand the driving goals and support with the car’s design.”

Chassis

In helping to drive the future of the Lexus brand, the mission for LC 500 is to offer a dynamic driving experience and character unlike any Lexus vehicle prior to it. The pursuit of a sharper, more refined driving experience became the mission for the development team who also sought to maintain a superior Lexus ride quality befitting a flagship luxury sport coupe.



The LC 500 is the first Lexus to use the brand’s all-new, premium rear-wheel-drive luxury platform and is part of the new corporate global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA-L). The underpinnings of this new coupe will become the blueprint for the company’s future front-engine/rear- wheel-drive vehicles. In an effort to sharpen the car’s handling, the LC 500’s engineers focused on the platform’s fundamentals by placing most of the mass, including the engine and the occupants, in a position more centralized and lower in the chassis to improve the center of gravity.

Internally, Lexus engineers referred to this menu of mass-arranging tactics as the “inertia spec.” The driver hip and heel points have been lowered, wheels have been pushed to the corners of the car with shortened overhangs, and the drivetrain mass has been located behind the front axle line to create a front mid-ship layout. The LC 500 also relies on run-flat tires to improve packaging, reduce weight (thanks to no spare), and help shorten overhangs to achieve dynamic targets. The 12- volt battery has been relocated to the trunk as part of the mission to redistribute weight.

[vh_supra26]

Other mass management measures include the available carbon fiber roof, aluminum door skins mounted to the carbon fiber door inner structure, and a composite trunk floor. The LC 500 also represents the Lexus brand’s most intensive use of high-strength steel. This provides enhanced rigidity while reducing—and ideally positioning—vehicle mass to optimize dynamics. As a result, the LC 500 is very balanced with a nearly ideal front/rear weight distribution of 52/48.

To help achieve the level of chassis performance targeted for this new coupe, Lexus engineered the stiffest unibody the brand has ever produced. For LC 500, the strategic use of lightweight, high-strength steel helps make for a high degree of torsional rigidity that is more resistant to twisting forces than the exotic, carbon fiber-intensive LFA supercar.

The platform design maintains a consistent level of resistance to flexural forces and stiffness across the vehicle’s wheelbase to help create consistent, predictable handling behavior and sharper steering responses. Special braces in the engine compartment (usually a more twist-prone part of the chassis), the adoption of stiff aluminum front suspension towers, and the addition of a ring structure near the rear fenders are all measures that help further bolster the strength of key chassis structures.

Particular attention was devoted to the LC 500’s multilink suspension system. Double ball joints on the upper and lower control arms allow for control of the smallest movements from the driver inputs and road conditions. Beyond sharing workload, a dual ball joint arrangement helps optimize suspension geometry to increase wheel control and create a more precise steering response with better initial effort. To help reduce unsprung mass and improve suspension response, all but one of the control arms are made of lightweight forged aluminum.



Providing the grip on the show prototype car are concept versions of Michelin Pilot Sport tires with Premium Touch® sidewall technology: 245/40RF21 up front and 275/35RF21 at the rear. When all the handling elements come together, LC 500 becomes a world-class luxury sports coupe that exhibits razor-sharp reflexes, exceptional handling balance and rock-solid stability. This all-new platform will continue to undergo continuous improvement and enhancement throughout the vehicle’s lifecycle.

Said Sato: “We spent more than triple the usual amount of R&D time to pursue linear steering and to find the sweet spot for road contact feel. We also focused our efforts on suspension rigidity and enhancing geometry. Thanks to advancements in product engineering, we are now at a world-class level for suspension rigidity, and performance when lateral g’s are applied.”

Drivetrain

The power delivery to the rear wheels for LC 500 is handled by a new, very well matched set of components that maximize output to the wheels. The heart of the new LC 500 is derived from the proven, high-revving 5.0-liter V8 that is found in the RC F and GS F. The naturally aspirated V8 was selected for its smooth, linear throttle response and emotional engine sound.

The all-aluminum, 32- valve V8’s output targets 467 HP and 389 lb.-ft. of torque. The new engine is built for durability with lightweight, high-strength forged connecting rods and titanium valves that allow the engine to flourish at high rpm. This naturally aspirated engine makes an ideal pairing to a balanced sports coupe with its linear power delivery that allows easier control and exhilaration behind the wheel.



The engine in the LC 500 uses a dual intake inlet that help improve breathing and allow the engine to produce its fantastic sound. The new coupe features an active exhaust that opens baffles in Sport mode to help give the car a more aggressive exhaust note even in start-up. In fact, even when the vehicle is in Normal mode the exhaust baffles open above 3500 rpm. During acceleration, a Sound Generator involving tuned acoustic plumbing enhances the engine’s raucous melody into an aural thunder that helps distinguish the LC 500 in its competitive segment.

Helping power transfer to the rear wheels is a newly developed 10-speed automatic transmission—the first ever in a luxury automobile—with shift times rivaling those of a dual-clutch transmission. The component is smaller and lighter than some current 8-speed transmissions. The wide bandwidth of shifting afforded by 10 closely spaced gears is ideal for all forms of driving, providing an optimal gear in all conditions. This transmission is matched to a new electric control system with software that helps anticipate the driver’s inputs by monitoring acceleration, braking and lateral g forces.



The new transmission is just one key element in a vehicle that has had all of its dynamic control elements such as power application, braking, and steering tuned to operate rhythmically in sport driving conditions. Drivers will feel the controlled balance between the quick, smooth shifting actions, the application of linear engine power, and the deceleration afforded by 6-piston front brake calipers (4-piston at rear).

All of the platform and drivetrain engineering helped endow the LC 500 with performance and agility uncommon for a four-person coupe; the vehicle targets a 0 to 60 mph time of less than 4.5 seconds.

Interior Electronics


This flagship coupe will debut the 2017 Lexus Multimedia package that will feature updated, faster, more flexible software enabling future enhancements and a more inviting graphic user interface. Occupants also will be treated to an exceptional audio experience inside the cabin: in addition to the available audiophile-worthy Mark Levinson audio package, a new premium Pioneer audio system comes as standard equipment. Pioneer’s sound engineers worked in collaboration with LC 500 body and cabin designers to enhance interior sound performance within the cabin, studying the acoustic environment and driving structural changes to enhance sound performance.

The LC 500 also will boast Lexus’ renowned safety technology, Lexus Safety System + , which integrates several of Lexus’s active safety technologies: an All-speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (All-speed DRCC) that relieves stop-and-go traffic stress, the Pre-Collision System (PCS) helps prevent and mitigate collisions; Lane Keep Assist (LKA) helps prevent vehicles from departing from their lanes; and Automatic High Beam (AHB) that helps ensure optimal forward visibility during nighttime driving.
These technologies are part of a multi-faceted approach to active safety, the Lexus Safety System + package, that combines millimeter-wave radar with a camera to help achieve a high level of system reliability and performance.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...oit-auto-show/

[vh_supra26]

I think it looks pretty good in blue.



https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01/...trasonic-blue/

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/02/...500-in-motion/



https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/02/...0-convertible/

[vh_supra26]

When a new model begins life as an exaggerated and highly stylised sketch, it’s no stretch to imagine that the look of the later physical concept will bend a few less laws of physics.

And, of course, the final road-going production model that follows – if production is confirmed at all – will usually do away with the concept’s most awe-inspiring aspects.

The slender futuristic headlights, the low-slung body, the 40-inch wheels that barely fit beneath the impossibly wide guards…

Subaru’s WRX concept stands out as a concept that dropped jaws before graduating to a less intimidating – if still purposeful – final production design.



The Suzuki Kizashi 3 concept is another well-remembered example. How different the brand’s fortunes in the mid-sized sedan segment might’ve been if that showstopper had made it to showrooms…

But, every now and then, a car maker hits it out of the park. The new 2017 Lexus LC500, for example.

When the LF-LC first appeared in 2011, fans wondered if it could be a successor to the LFA – or something more affordable and less extreme, like a next-generation SC.

Of course, there were question marks over whether any future production version could keep the concept’s mighty proportions and fine details intact. But Lexus had been starting to demonstrate a move towards a new ‘out there’ styling language and, it seemed, the odds weren’t so bad.



And, as the recent Detroit motor show revealed, those brave enough to bet on the concept’s styling will have been stoked to learn that not only is the LF-LC bound for production – but that the resulting LC500 coupe‘s styling is remarkably true to its roots.

Just how similar are these two cars, though? How faithful is the LC500’s design to the LF-LC that came before it?

We’ve put together a series of comparison shots here. Tell us what you think of the results, in the comments below.




Dead-on, it’s clear that the LF-LC is the less ‘realistic’ of the two vehicles, and that’s as it should be – although the photography suggests Lexus used a few lens tricks with the LF-LC shot.

There’s no denying, though, that the LC500 has looked to its concept progenitor in arriving at a wide and planted look.




Remarkably, there’s very little to set these two twins apart from the profile. Although not outright identical, both feature a super-sleek shape and traditional supercar proportions.

In production form, the LC wears an ever-so-slightly longer roofline, sheetmetal-mounted side mirrors and a proper door handle. There’s also a clear and unavoidable panel join at the base of the A-pillar, and the bonnet may be the tiniest bit taller – although that could be the angle of the vehicle in the photo.




Moving to the rear, the photography again suggests a wider look for the LF-LC, but the LC500’s muscly haunches are hardly far removed from the concept’s intent.

The LF-LC’s deep side channels below the tail-lamps are gone, as is the glowing perforated look to the plunging satin-silver trim

A taller rear deck features above a repositioned panel line, and larger exhaust finishers are fitted either side of the subtle diffuser.




It’s here that the LC500 delivers the most surprises, with Lexus’s designers staying very close to the original headlight and tail-lamp design. In both cases, the design remains remarkably faithful to the concept.

The differences are clear, but the similarities are exceptional. A rare result.




As with the lighting, the big new LC500 coupe’s C-pillar has carried over with only minor changes that could arguably be described as an improvement.

The wraparound look continues, while the chrome garnish has been made thicker and the long black side panel now subtly overlapping the glass of the rear window.




Inside is where the bulk of the changes have occurred, and it’s no surprise. Lexus has looked back to a more classic design in the cabin, while evolving the long two-tier dash design that has featured in its models for sometime now.

The effect remains rich and premium, however, comfortably matching – if not bettering – the cabins of its European rivals.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/409580/l...yling-faceoff/

[LFA.Baby]

My take on the LC500 a la VIP style

[gymratter]

Originally Posted by LFA.Baby

My take on the LC500 a la VIP style

Looks good

[vh_supra26]

Four years ago, the Lexus LF-LC concept debuted at the Detroit auto show in front of a pleasantly surprised but very pleased crowd. Akio Toyoda took note of the reaction, turned to his Lexus team, and told them to bring the LF-LC to life. The design and engineering teams in Japan worked side-by-side and came up with this, the 2018 Lexus LC 500. The LC 500 has gotten a lot of deserved attention on the floor of the 2016 Detroit auto show, where we also learned a bit more about Lexus’ all-new coupe.

1. Exterior design dictated a brand-new front suspension. Early in development, Lexus engineers knew they would need to completely redesign the front suspension after the low-slung hood wouldn’t fit over the V-8 engine and the chassis couldn’t accommodate 21-inch wheels. Lexus built a multilink suspension from scratch that will be carried over to future models.

2. Its active exhaust caused a lot of dispute. Higher-ups at Lexus wanted the engine to “bark” at startup, like a Ford Mustang would, but many engineers in Japan felt like that would set the 2018 Lexus LC 500 too far afield from classic Lexus models. Chief engineer Koji Sato set the record straight, said they would fit the coupe with an active exhaust, and supposedly the LC 500 sounds like a serious, badass performance car.

3. The 10-speed automatic transmissions's torque converter is the most compact ever fitted to a Lexus driveline. A smaller torque converter means reduced mass, which means less parasitic loss.

4. Lexus benchmarked the BMW 6 Series, Jaguar F-type, Maserati GranTurismo, and Mercedes-Benz SL-Class. And guess what? All four have high-performance variants. Here to hoping we see a 2020 Lexus LC F.

5. Its battery is in the trunk. Engineers had to put it back there to help hit a 52/48 percent front-rear weight distribution.

6. The steering wheel rim varies in thickness and shape. It’s subtle but thoughtful design work that Sato says is noticeable during spirited driving.

7. Its headlights use the smallest LEDs in the automotive market. And the trio of tiny lights looks absolutely fantastic.

8. Its front and side air ducts are for aerodynamics, not brake cooling. The four ducts—two on each side of the car, all forward of the wheels—minimize wind baffling and help stabilize the wheels and tires at high speeds.

9. Most development happened on Southern California’s canyon roads. While the LC 500 raced around Fuji, Willow Springs, and Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, most development happened in the canyon roads surrounding Los Angeles. Bolain says to think of the LC 500 as “a grand touring car with the heart of a sports car.”

10. The taillights have a semi-reflective finish. When the taillights aren’t lit up, the treatment makes the plastic lenses look metallic, like big pieces of exterior trim.

11. It’ll come in 12 colors. Red is one of them, obviously.

12. Lexus engineers tried to replicate the knobs from $10,000 stereo systems for the LC 500’s interior. The metal-trimmed volume knob for the car’s audio system has a lot of heft as you turn it.

13. Its shift paddles are made out of actual magnesium. Not cheap plastic like you find on most faux sports cars.

14. There will be very few option packages. The optional carbon-fiber roof will likely be bundled in with something like an F Sport package.

15. It’ll likely go on sale in March 2017. And it won’t have a six-figure price tag.

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...-lexus-lc-500/

[Tcoat]

I saw the LC 500 in Detroit last month and it was certainly sweet.
It was however (in my eyes) beat out by the Buick Avista concept. If the Avista gets made, stays true to the concept and cost in the range of a Jag Type F it could be a contender for my retirement car (as is the LC 500 at this point).

[vh_supra26]

When the new LC 500 sports coupe goes on sale in spring 2017, Lexus plans in the first full sales year to deliver 4,000 units in the U.S. and 6,600 globally.

Chief Engineer Koji Sato says Toyota’s GA-L platform will underpin the LC 500 and all future rear-drive models in the Toyota luxury brand’s lineup. Based on the current portfolio, that would include the next-generation LS, GS, IS and RC, with both rear- and all-wheel-drive powertrains.

Sato declines to say whether the platform might also be adopted for Toyota’s luxury lineup overseas, including the Crown models.

Unveiled in its production sheet metal at Detroit’s North American International Auto Show in January, the LC 500 is said to boost torsional rigidity 60% and chassis (side-force) rigidity 35% over the current GS sedan.

The car will feature a new triple LED headlamp unit and a slight upgrade of Lexus’ safety package, including pre-collision and lane-keep-assist technologies.

Lexus in the U.S. sold 344,601 vehicles in 2015, including 171,131 cars and 173,470 trucks, according to WardsAuto data. Sales grew 10.7% during the year.

In a separate interview, Lexus International Executive Vice President Mark Templin tells WardsAuto LC 500 sales may surpass internal expectations, especially in the U.S.

“We have such a big following here in the U.S. So many of our loyal customers would like to have a car like this,” he says.

But perhaps more importantly, the coupe likely is to draw in buyers new to Lexus, Templin believes, based on the LC’s lauded and close-to-concept-car styling, new platform, new 10-speed automatic transmission and an expected base price of less than $100,000 in the U.S.

A sub-$100,000 starting price isn’t unheard of for the LC’s segment, which includes the $89,400 Porsche 911 Carrera and the $77,300 BMW 6-Series in the U.S.

But Templin also considers more “rare air” models such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class coupe, Aston Martin Vantage and Maserati GranTurismo Sport to be competition. Those three start well north of $100,000.

“It’ll be a pretty spectacular car for the money vs. the other competitors,” Templin says. “This car will blow (the Vantage) away and the typical transaction price on a 6-Series is higher than what this will be. Optioned up (the LC will) go a little higher, but the base price you’ll see out there will be a nice car at a very good value proposition.”

Lexus envisions the LC 500 as one leg of a three-legged flagship strategy. Included in that is the car most view as Lexus’ flagship, the LS fullsize sedan, but Templin also includes in the mix the LX large SUV. Lexus sells six times more LX SUVs in the Middle East than in the U.S.

The 3-row ute may face regulatory pressure long-term, being a body-on-frame SUV, he says.

“But, in the mid-term I still see (large SUVs) being a really important product for us that will stay the course.”

For the next-generation LS, expected in 2018, Templin promises “some cool interior stuff for us. We’re really focused on technology; we’re really focused on craftsmanship. We’re going to do some things with the next-generation LS interior that we’ve never done with interiors before,” he says.

He stops short of saying what technology the new LS will have. The new BMW 7-Series has gesture-control technology, which allows drivers to change radio stations and turn up or down the temperature via specific hand movements.

http://wardsauto.com/technology/lexu...st-other-makes