In for the long haul Ultimate NA build thread.

[Dr Speed]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Lol people are hitting that with e85 and headers.

Right but what do you think all this extra work will gain? Was the 205 on E85 Tune with Header measured in SAE with a smoothing Factor 5 or was it STD.


I have seen a few of these cars tuned, and while I don't own a BRZ/FRS personally I have seen claims for the car I own where people front manufacturer claims, or present dyno sheets in STD. That's just not accurate.


I'm sure OP will have fun, and I'm tuned in to see final numbers.. but to air on the negative side a bit, I think this will be a lot of work for not a lot of go vs FI vs tune only especially when you look at time, costs and reliability. I have been down this road with other platforms and learned hard lessons... like 7rwhp from a set of cams and $2000 in new parts and hours and hours of my time and trapping .4mph faster with an identical e.t


Honestly 300cc's extra, pistons and a set of cams and ported heads on this engine I would bet might add 10-12hp. Its already making 100hp per liter OEM or about 78-80whp per liter measured at the wheels


FI is getting guys into the 220-230 range conservatively SAE... you might hit that lower number with a full N/A build.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Dr Speed

Right but what do you think all this extra work will gain? Was the 205 on E85 Tune with Header measured in SAE with a smoothing Factor 5 or was it STD.
If he didn't think it was worth it, he wouldn't be doing it

I have seen a few of these cars tuned, and while I don't own a BRZ/FRS personally I have seen claims for the car I own where people front manufacturer claims, or present dyno sheets in STD. That's just not accurate.


I'm sure OP will have fun, and I'm tuned in to see final numbers.. but to air on the negative side a bit, I think this will be a lot of work for not a lot of go vs FI vs tune only especially when you look at time, costs and reliability. I have been down this road with other platforms and learned hard lessons... like 7rwhp from a set of cams and $2000 in new parts and hours and hours of my time and trapping .4mph faster with an identical e.t

time? he is not in a rush, or it doesn't seem like it.
Cost? his money.
Reliability? should all be there depending on how high rev limit is.

Honestly 300cc's extra, pistons and a set of cams and ported heads on this engine I would bet might add 10-12hp. Its already making 100hp per liter OEM or about 78-80whp per liter measured at the wheels

By your math, 100hp per liter, .3 liter would be 30hp.
160whp stock. 24whp gain(by your math)
Car dynos 155-165 completely stock. header/e85/tune pulls 195-205 or so.
205+ that magical 24hp. 229hp
FI is getting guys into the 220-230 range conservatively SAE... you might hit that lower number with a full N/A build.
it is going to be a full build, so your math works out. I suggest you look at more dyno sheets

response in bold

[Dr Speed]

Originally Posted by swarb

response in bold

You are right my math does work out. I've looked at a lot of dyno sheets. I'm not discrediting the OP. I just finished a full build on another platform similar to what he is doing.


Just adding my two cents.

[200hp/tonne]

All that math didn't even account for the raised rev limit. Assuming he makes 200 Nm torque at crank from the 2.3L at 9000 RPM, we end up with 253 crank BHp, which is quite a lot. With porting and a proper tune, this number should be easy to hit at those revs, as the engine makes more or less 200 Nm stock.

[sato]

Isn't there a Mazda/Ford 2.3L engine (used in racing) that produced almost 300hp?

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[Snake]

http://www.cosworth.com/products/cra...ratec-engines/

280bhp for the top of the range 2.3ltr

Looks like they run dry sump, ITBs, 13:1 compression and 8500rpm limit.

[Aztec]

@celek What type of gearing are you planning on doing? Any sort of FD swap??

[celek]

Originally Posted by swarb

response in bold

Not to mention everything is exponential.
If all I did was increase displacement to 2.3 liters and left everything else stock you are looking at a 15% increase to a base 230 Crank HP All the other addons work with each other.

[celek]

Originally Posted by Aztec

@celek What type of gearing are you planning on doing? Any sort of FD swap??

Its been considered but I do not want to go too crazy as the increased TQ and Power may not be a good combination of a really high Final Drive like 5.7:1

[celek]

Originally Posted by 200hp/tonne

All that math didn't even account for the raised rev limit. Assuming he makes 200 Nm torque at crank from the 2.3L at 9000 RPM, we end up with 253 crank BHp, which is quite a lot. With porting and a proper tune, this number should be easy to hit at those revs, as the engine makes more or less 200 Nm stock.

Hopefully the meeting with Piper Cams at PRI proves successful. The current Cam profile stock falls flat at 7000 RPM. there is really no reason to go higher unless you have boost. In a NA platform its different you dont want to struggle with acceleration to 9000RPM not making power when you could have shifted to a new gear and be going faster.

[200hp/tonne]

Originally Posted by celek

The current Cam profile stock falls flat at 7000 RPM.

What does that mean? I don't think it would lose power at high rpms, just leave room on the table for longer duration cams to do a better job. Plus, there's always phasing from the AVCS to help you out...

[celek]

Originally Posted by 200hp/tonne

What does that mean? I don't think it would lose power at high rpms, just leave room on the table for longer duration cams to do a better job. Plus, there's always phasing from the AVCS to help you out...

Yes the AVCS can help but if you look at the Dyno's people provide for our engine with the stock cams they start to flatten out at about 7k RPM. To support that higher RPM you need more lift and duration to bring enough air and fuel in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=brz+...zom40Gjy1oM%3A

[200hp/tonne]

It looks like the tune is severely gimped past 7000 rpm at full load. Crazy rich AFR, weird cam timings, retarded ignition, it's all there.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by 200hp/tonne

It looks like the tune is severely gimped past 7000 rpm at full load. Crazy rich AFR, weird cam timings, retarded ignition, it's all there.

He is talking about tuned results....

Lots of talented tuners have been working with this platform for a while now. The power is not locked away in the tuning (beyond 7500, NA). Yes there are some good gains up top with headers, E85, exhaust and tune but it drops off hard once you pass 7k with the stock heads and cams.