Opinions: Tein Flex A or RCE Tarmac/Bilstein

[ChrisSC300]

Just looking for opinions here. My wheels & Tires just came in Enkei Rpf1 17x9 +35. Now I need my suspension before I mount them. I had my heart set on RCE Tarmac springs with Bilstein B8's. Now that the Flex A's are out for about the same price it's thrown a wrench in my plan.
Car is my daily with approx 6-12 auto x per year. Only dropping 1in so lowering adjustability is not the issue. Just curious which option would have the better spring rates/valving for the amateur auto x'er & DD. Tarmacs are 5k Teins are 6k. Teins are stiffer but as we all know stiffer does not mean better handling.

[BobBRZ]

I'm considering the same options. But, I'm leaning towards doing nothing for now and saving for something better. Suspension is one area where it's worth stretching the budget a bit. If you're staying in that price range I would look into Fourtin Auto, or Feal. They have nice entry level options for slightly more than the ones you are considering.

[bfrank1972]

Guys, one thing that swayed me to the Teins (actually I have the Street Flex, similar to the Flex Z/A) is the camber plates included. If you do any kind of performance driving you'll want have some negative front camber. You can get there somewhat with camber bolts, but really you'll need more than that to get over -1.5 degrees in the front. The Bilstein dampers are probably higher quality than the Tein dampers, but add several hundred dollars to your Bilstein budget for those camber plates. The Tein springs and dampers are matched by Tein - I'm unfamiliar with how well the Tarmac springs are matched to the Bilstein dampers (probably fine). FWIW I just installed my Tein suspension and aside from some increased rear noise I love them.

[Racecomp Engineering]

I don't have first hand experience with the Teins, but I've read that the damping is quite soft. I'd like to go for a ride.

You might want to consider the Bilstein B6 instead of the B8. There is no difference in valving, only the reduced droop travel and probably a shorter internal bumpstop. You can open the Bilsteins to trim the internal bumpstop or run as is. This saves you a little bit of money over the B8s.

I do really like the Bilsteins, which have the nice feature of being easily revalvable.

Camber plates would indeed be very helpful. We have our RCE Street plates but that may push you out of your budget.

- Andrew

[solidONE]

If the flex a damping is anything like the flex z, which I believe it is according to Tein's marketing material, it will be quite soft and compliant. The words "cadilac" and "camry" come to mind (5 clicks out from full stiff). I haven't had a chance to really throw it around yet nor have I tested the firmest settings (customer's car), but I will soon once he bring it back to me to check and re-torque everything.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Guys, one thing that swayed me to the Teins (actually I have the Street Flex, similar to the Flex Z/A) is the camber plates included. If you do any kind of performance driving you'll want have some negative front camber. You can get there somewhat with camber bolts, but really you'll need more than that to get over -1.5 degrees in the front. The Bilstein dampers are probably higher quality than the Tein dampers, but add several hundred dollars to your Bilstein budget for those camber plates. The Tein springs and dampers are matched by Tein - I'm unfamiliar with how well the Tarmac springs are matched to the Bilstein dampers (probably fine). FWIW I just installed my Tein suspension and aside from some increased rear noise I love them.

I have a friend who also has the earlier Street Flex for his 14 BRZ and that thing pogos really bad even full stiff. I've seen the rear wheels catch air over larger bumps at my local mountain road several times while following him. He's switching to Bilstein PSS10's cause he was not satisfied with the damping. lol Don't get me wrong, everybody has different "requirements" from their suspension. Although for my friend, he was not happy with them at all.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I have a friend who also has the earlier Street Flex for his 14 BRZ and that thing pogos really bad even full stiff. I've seen the rear wheels catch air over larger bumps at my local mountain road several times while following him. He's switching to Bilstein PSS10's cause he was not satisfied with the damping. lol Don't get me wrong, everybody has different "requirements" from their suspension. Although for my friend, he was not happy with them at all.

Whaaaat!? Really?

Sorry, but I have to say something was wrong with his dampers or call BS on that. You sure they weren't defective? Were they set up correctly?

Yeah I'm not a track junkie on r-comps so my "requirements" aren't for a track ready suspension, but there's nothing going on like what you're alluding to. No pogo-ing, catching air, etc. Actually the opposite, the suspension complies to the road and does a better job of keeping the rubber on the pavement.

To give some context, I was a skeptic of the Teins but I took the leap anyway because they were 'cheap' with camber plates - I thought what the hell, I can always resell them. Lo and behold, I'm quite happily surprised - compared to stock with springs: a very noticeable improvement in grip & responsiveness, corners much flatter, more confidence, more compliant over rough roads, slightly improved steering feel.

Anyway I don't want to sound like a Tein advertisement - you'll get all the above with the Bilsteins too, but coming from someone who has the Teins and actually has *no* bias, the Teins work pretty darned well for performance street driving (and I imagine a marked improvement over stock on the track).

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Whaaaat!? Really?

Sorry, but I have to say something was wrong with his dampers or call BS on that. You sure they weren't defective? Were they set up correctly?

Yeah I'm not a track junkie on r-comps so my "requirements" aren't for a track ready suspension, but there's nothing going on like what you're alluding to. No pogo-ing, catching air, etc. Actually the opposite, the suspension complies to the road and does a better job of keeping the rubber on the pavement.

To give some context, I was a skeptic of the Teins but I took the leap anyway because they were 'cheap' with camber plates - I thought what the hell, I can always resell them. Lo and behold, I'm quite happily surprised - compared to stock with springs: a very noticeable improvement in grip & responsiveness, corners much flatter, more confidence, more compliant over rough roads, slightly improved steering feel.

Anyway I don't want to sound like a Tein advertisement - you'll get all the above with the Bilsteins too, but coming from someone who has the Teins and actually has *no* bias, the Teins work pretty darned well for performance street driving (and I imagine a marked improvement over stock on the track).

Yeah man.. I was pretty surprised as well. We did the "bounce test" to the rear end where you forcibly put your weight on the rear end of the car to compress it. After compressing it, it will bounce several times (not the most scientific method). This is full stiff setting, mind you. Though it's quite possible that he does have a defective set, but I wouldn't know for sure. I haven't driven his car so I can only judge from what I see his car doing over the bumps, and that thing pogos.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Yeah man.. I was pretty surprised as well. We did the "bounce test" to the rear end where you forcibly put your weight on the rear end of the car to compress it. After compressing it, it will bounce several times (not the most scientific method). This is full stiff setting, mind you. Though it's quite possible that he does have a defective set, but I wouldn't know for sure. I haven't driven his car so I can only judge from what I see his car doing over the bumps, and that thing pogos.

Ok - well I'm on the 'standard' 8 clicks from full stiff front, 6 rear, and the thing is solid. And I was bouncing up and down on it too - not to test damping but to test whether I got rid of that noise I had last week (success!). It's like we're talking about 2 different suspensions - maybe he should call Tein and talk to them about it, doesn't sound like it's performing right to me... sounds like the dampers are hardly doing anything at all!

[strat61caster]

I've read that 'full stiff' on budget dampers isn't always 'full stiff' worth a shot to try a couple other settings imo.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've read that 'full stiff' on budget dampers isn't always 'full stiff' worth a shot to try a couple other settings imo.

My friends that were playing with the adjustments have engineering backgrounds. I can assure you they've tested the entire range of adjustments. lol (*really anal mofos)

[ChrisSC300]

Thanks everyone. Looks like bilstein's it is. Seems more suited to my application and needs.

@Racecomp Engineering, thanks for the reply. Budget really isn't an issue. I'm just not down for paying big money for stuff I would rarely take advantage of. I was originally considering your T0's or T2's but for my every other month auto x and maybe 1-2 times a year track days the t2's would be overkill. Top hats and rear LCA's are in the plan. This way I can have a nice -1.5/-2 of front camber for DD then easily change it for autocross. How do your street camber plates compare to the RACESENG plates. They look very similar. I plan on getting either of the two.

[chaoskaze]

^ for myself I decided on Tein A, but know that Bilstein B6 is very good. JDM yellow STI damper is actually a custom set of B6s. :p


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[whataboutbob]

You might also consider the RS-R Club Racers: http://counterspacegarage.com/rsr-sp...ubaru-brz.html

They include camber plates with spherical bearings that can allow you to get up to -3 degrees camber in the front. They come with 8K springs square, and you can adjust ride height independent of piston stroke position.

I've been daily driving a set on my car for almost a year, and the range of damper adjustment will allow for a smooth ride on rough streets as well as heavier damping for Auto X events.