Second Generation FT86 Confirmed

[Justin.b]

These are all niche cars. People willing to sacrifice fuel economy and practicality for performance make up a very small segment of the market. If you total the Z, WRX, Miata, GTI, FRS and BRZ numbers you don't even get a year's Honda Civic sales - and the WRX and GTI don't even sacrifice practicality. They just cost a little more and get worse fuel economy.

-Justin

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The old RX-7 is a fun car, but it just doesn't get the love. Why is that?

Not much love for the first or second-gen Integra. Why is that?

Not much love for any gen of Supra but gen 4. Again, why?

Looks are possibly the biggest reason. All the early gens of those cars look... old. Including your favorite Supra. The MkIVPoopra, FD, 300ZX, and DC4 all have hot, modern-looking bodies.

Maybe it was a mistake to post the FB, but the FC gets tons of love, every conversation I have about 7's with people that have owned and worked on them has the statement "No you don't want an FD, get an FC".

Yup, third gen was a gem on the Integra, fourth wasn't as good and is a great example that cars aren't always better on the new generation.

Supra? Fast and the Furious and 1,000 horsepower 2JZ's.

You're right, how could I forget the most important quality of sports cars, how they look.



I specifically targeted 2nd generation sports cars with my earlier statement, so far the FC and Mk2 Supra make me eat my words and the Integra is a good counterpoint that good things can come in a later generation (same thing with the Mustang, although not a sports car).

You're right, loosing an edge isn't a bad thing, so is gaining performance, I think I need to stop my trolling with blanket statements for the day.

Cautious optimism kids, newer isn't always better is the thrust of my point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

IMO Refresh of current chassis happens in 2017 for Europe and Asia and in 2018 as a 2019 model for North America.

Roughly the same time (2018-2019 global launch) the S-FR is introduced.

The all new 86 chassis we wont see until 4 years after that. Where it gains power but no weight due to Electric Supercharging and improved materials. It will have more GT like road manners (improved damping, more sound insulation, upgraded interior HVAC/Entertainment electronics). This will raise the base price to ~$31k. A N/A model will also be offered at $28k

Source, also my ass.

Well I will say Daem that my ass totally agrees with your ass in that prediction with the exception of the price. The increases will be far more than that I am afraid because in the interval between those changes the world governments will place even more safety and environmental regulations that will drive costs up. The manufactures can and will not eat those costs just to sell a few more cars.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by carma143

I believe there is still hope.

Interestingly your graph unknowingly shows the introduction of the 370Z, the generation that follows the 350Z, that one looks pretty lackluster too...

Although I had no idea that 86's outsold GTI's for two years running, that's a bit of an accomplishment imo.

[Hoahao]

Anybody want to guess where all those systems originated?

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Maybe it was a mistake to post the FB, but the FC gets tons of love, every conversation I have about 7's with people that have owned and worked on them has the statement "No you don't want an FD, get an FC".

Yup, third gen was a gem on the Integra, fourth wasn't as good and is a great example that cars aren't always better on the new generation.

Supra? Fast and the Furious and 1,000 horsepower 2JZ's.

You're right, how could I forget the most important quality of sports cars, how they look.



I specifically targeted 2nd generation sports cars with my earlier statement, so far the FC and Mk2 Supra make me eat my words and the Integra is a good counterpoint that good things can come in a later generation (same thing with the Mustang, although not a sports car).

You're right, loosing an edge isn't a bad thing, so is gaining performance, I think I need to stop my trolling with blanket statements for the day.

Cautious optimism kids, newer isn't always better is the thrust of my point.

I understood your point Strat!
And to repeat my very oft inflammatory opinion on many of the cars discussed here:


Many have been raised to a legendary status by a generation that have more often than not never even sat in one much less drove it. Yes, yes I know there are some that have but it is not this minority that have perpetuated the legends but the kids that grew up wanting one because it was the coolest in that movie or video game. If these were such perfect machines back in the day why is it such a common complaint now that people can not find nice unmolested ones? They were molested for a reason and it is not strange that the popularity of them has grown at the same pace as the internet and the pre movie/game/anime versions are not as popular now as the latter ones even though they may have been much superior cars.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Hoahao

Anybody want to guess where all those systems originated?

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993)

And where did Mr Deming teach and introduce his theories and systems when NA businesses told him to go pound salt?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If these were such perfect machines back in the day why is it such a common complaint now that people can not find nice unmolested ones?

To be fair, the 86 is pretty great and the community at large seems to be going Catholic church on them, all cars get fucked with unless they're not treated like cars.

Thank god the Germans don't make cartoons, I've got my eye on some BMW's and Porsche's once I have the resources for a bigger garage, I wouldn't stand a chance if the same hype hit those cars that have hit the Japanese cars.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

To be fair, the 86 is pretty great and the community at large seems to be going Catholic church on them, all cars get fucked with unless they're not treated like cars.

Thank god the Germans don't make cartoons, I've got my eye on some BMW's and Porsche's once I have the resources for a bigger garage, I wouldn't stand a chance if the same hype hit those cars that have hit the Japanese cars.

Are you talking hype as in getting the prices inflated or as in getting modded to hell and back and leaving an airbagged turd tucking 22's where a decent sportscar once was?

-Justin

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

To be fair, the 86 is pretty great and the community at large seems to be going Catholic church on them, all cars get fucked with unless they're not treated like cars.

Thank god the Germans don't make cartoons, I've got my eye on some BMW's and Porsche's once I have the resources for a bigger garage, I wouldn't stand a chance if the same hype hit those cars that have hit the Japanese cars.

Yep
Yep
and a huge
YEP


I guess being on the outside of the modern "import" crowd looking in I see things that many here are just blind to. Oh well the hate mail should start rolling in the PM box any second now.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by raven1231

I have a feeling the second gen (not refresh) will actually be pretty exciting. Something tells me they might surprise us.

Source: My ass (equivalent to motoring.au)

No, you can actually remove the shit(bs) hanging from your ass, motoring's is there to stay, like a permanent tattoo or scar

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Are you talking hype as in getting the prices inflated or as in getting modded to hell and back and leaving an airbagged turd tucking 22's where a decent sportscar once was?

-Justin

The former. The latter happens to Chryslers and minivans as much as VW's, 240sx's, Porsche's, and 86's.

Edit: Watching Mk1 GTI, 2002, E30, and 911 prices climb for me is like the band you wanted to see breaking up and you sit there remembering the last time they were in town and you didn't go because they'll come around next year.

And that's just the short German list, there's still a few Japanese cars I've got my eye on that I think I will totally miss the boat on unless I win the Lotto.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The former. The latter happens to Chryslers and minivans as much as VW's, 240sx's, Porsche's, and 86's.

I hope you like 914s, Caymans or Boxsters. I've been booting myself in the ass for not jumping on a 964 before they went crazy. Just a couple of years ago you could have had your pick of some very nice ones for $25k. These days it seems that money will get you a non-running car missing most of the interior... or a 996 .

Edit: Haha. I was typing this while you were editing. I moved a little further north of Boston last year and now I see 2002's all the time. I didn't realize there were any around. I still never see 510s. Road salt ate all of them well before I had a license.

-Justin

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by akyp

Lexus IS is another one that comes to mind!

Lexus IS never was much of a sports oriented car to begin with, that's why most of those you see are automatic, no LSD and driven by older folks(not so much now since they are affordable to the younger generation). I feel like the original IS300(altezza) was a miss on the part of Lexus/Toyota as they could've had either a very nice comfy car or a more sporty sedan but instead chose to split it down the middle trying to make it a bit sporty to appeal to a younger generation all the while pricing it to an unattainable price range for most younger generations.

I still love the IS300 though that's why I owned one before the BRZ