M14 wheels on M12 studs

[mav1178]

Let me ask my question again:

What makes you think using a wheel with 14mm lug holes is a safety issue on a car with 12mm studs? Let's assume large-enough lug nuts were used and it is torqued down to manufacturer's spec without an impact gun.

Let's also assume the following:

- wheels have 60 degree lug seat
- lugs have 60 degree taper
- lugs are large enough to center the wheel properly on the lug seat
- wheels have hub-centric rings
- torqued down by hand

What about this setup is unsafe?

-alex

[86kahl]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Let me ask my question again:



What makes you think using a wheel with 14mm lug holes is a safety issue on a car with 12mm studs? Let's assume large-enough lug nuts were used and it is torqued down to manufacturer's spec without an impact gun.



Let's also assume the following:



- wheels have 60 degree lug seat

- lugs have 60 degree taper

- lugs are large enough to center the wheel properly on the lug seat

- wheels have hub-centric rings

- torqued down by hand



What about this setup is unsafe?



-alex

Uhm the part where they didn't change the studs to M14......









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[mav1178]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

Uhm the part where you didn't change the studs to M14......

Since you know about the subject, mind telling us why it is bad?

[86kahl]

I never said it was bad.
I never said it wasn't possible.


It. Is. Not. Safe.

The only safe options imo based solely on my experience is;

1) wheels matching M12

2)changing stud/hubs to match M14

I do not trust aftermarket lug nuts, self centering lugs, spacers, or any other tricks used to make wheels fit. Some people do and for some it works out, I just gave one example of someone it didn't work out for and I'd rather not chance safety.


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[mav1178]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

I do not trust aftermarket lug nuts, self centering lugs, spacers, or any other tricks used to make wheels fit. Some people do and for some it works out, I just gave one example of someone it didn't work out for and I'd rather not chance safety.

So... what is the difference between stock 60 degree tapered lug nuts, and aftermarket lug nuts like Kics R26? Or Gorilla? Or something cheap you buy from Autozone?

And you do realize that the factory lug nuts are basically self-centering, right?

-alex

[86kahl]

Factory lug nuts are not the same as self-centering lugs.

Like I said before there are people (and businesses) that trust aftermarket solutions for picking the wrong wheels but I am not one of them. We're talking about safety and the safest thing would be to start with M12 sized wheels imo.



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[mav1178]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

Factory lug nuts are not the same as self-centering lugs.

So what is the difference between a self-centering lug nut and the factory lug nut?

[86kahl]

Originally Posted by mav1178

So what is the difference between a self-centering lug nut and the factory lug nut?

One is safe and the other is a shoddy attempt to center wheels with the wrong stud bore😪

It's like arguing for the use of daytons imo😂


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[mav1178]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

One is safe and the other is a shoddy attempt to center wheels with the wrong stud bore😪

You do realize that any lug nut with a tapered lug seat is a self-centering lug nut, right?

That's what I am getting at... it is NOT unsafe if large enough lug nuts are used.

[86kahl]

Originally Posted by mav1178

You do realize that any lug nut with a tapered lug seat is a self-centering lug nut, right?



That's what I am getting at... it is NOT unsafe if large enough lug nuts are used.

I think you might have the terms confused. Tapered lug nuts are not the same as self centering.
Self centering have a little shank that goes deeper than the actual lug to keep bore in place, typically seen with a washer attached.

Okay I think an agreement can be reached before this thread goes on for 10+ pages.

It is not UNSAFE to use the proper aftermarket lugs with M14 wheels on M12studs
But starting with an M12 wheel is a SAFER set up when using factory lugs on M12studs





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[Varelco]

Reigniting this thread as I just made one for the same thing because I didn't search properly...

86Kahl what is it exactly that makes it unsafe? My understanding is that the hole in a wheel whether its M12 or M14 is a clearance hole and has nothing to do with securing the wheel to the hub. The tapered face is what holds the wheel on with the centre bore used to centralise the wheel. From what I can see you lose 2mm of taper face with a M14 hole over an M12, so if using a regular wheel nut you're losing surface area to bolt up to (which I can see as unsafe). However if you compensate with a larger nut (like 21mm) you recover that loss of surface area and therefore you are back to square one, its all good.

[Dihudaxia]

Woah!

Didn't mean to start a debate.
But good points from both sides.

Still confused though.

I emailed Yokohama (maker of Advan wheels), hopefully they bother to reply me. Will update here once they respond to my emails.

[Varelco]

Not Models 5s by any chance?

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by 86kahl

I think you might have the terms confused. Tapered lug nuts are not the same as self centering.
Self centering have a little shank that goes deeper than the actual lug to keep bore in place, typically seen with a washer attached.

Okay I think an agreement can be reached before this thread goes on for 10+ pages.

It is not UNSAFE to use the proper aftermarket lugs with M14 wheels on M12studs
But starting with an M12 wheel is a SAFER set up when using factory lugs on M12studs



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I really don't get why people would add possible failure point to their cars, will it fuck up if you do what the OP wants to? probably not, but there are a number of cases (improper install, other shop not knowing this was done, etc.) that could cause problems, failures or people getting hurt down the line.

Whether or not it bound to happen at 99% certainty is not the issue here mav, the issue is that there IS a higher probability of failure than oem recommended specs. Tell me this why would you ever recommend something with a higher chance of failure (don't care if it's only 5-10% more likely to fail, it is more likely to fail and again not necessarily due to product itself but anyone who works with them).

Is it safe? probably. Should you do it from a probability/statistical perspective? no as you are increasing the odds for failure. Now OP figure out what is more important to you, the wheels you want or knowing that the probability of failure for your wheels and hubs is at the lowest value it could be.