Edelbrock supercharger is out. Need expert thoughts on it.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

@johan @VitViper Looks like there's a larger throttle body available:
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com...g-throttle-kit

Not sure how good it is or how well it would work however.

Way way too much money. I can source an 80mm Honda TB for $160 and machine my own adapter plate. It's not that hard to move two pins for the throttle plate full bridge control.

[Ultramaroon]

Before folks get all carried away on the TB, remember it only needs to be as big as the cross-sectional area of the compressor intake. Anything bigger would be a waste. Do we know that value?

[johan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Before folks get all carried away on the TB, remember it only needs to be as big as the cross-sectional area of the compressor intake. Anything bigger would be a waste. Do we know that value?

Depends on the supercharger being used, depends on if said supercharger is -stock- as well. You're not really living until you've "modified" your mods.

[johan]

Originally Posted by VitViper

Way way too much money. I can source an 80mm Honda TB for $160 and machine my own adapter plate. It's not that hard to move two pins for the throttle plate full bridge control.

Yeah the OEM Honda TB's would be a shoe in if we had an actual adapter plate that kept us from needing to rotate the TB. As it is, that rotation will likely cause some issues.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by johan

Depends on the supercharger being used, depends on if said supercharger is -stock- as well. You're not really living until you've "modified" your mods.

I'm having a deja vu. Did we already have this conversation at a barbecue? My apologies for beating the horse.

Bottom line, for best performance, as long as the ECU is capable of keeping track of things at WOT, we want the compressor to see as close to ambient pressure as possible.

If the TB is oversize all that command and feedback resolution approaching WOT is wasted.

[johan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'm having a deja vu. Did we already have this conversation at a barbecue? My apologies for beating the horse.

Bottom line, for best performance, as long as the ECU is capable of keeping track of things at WOT, we want the compressor to see as close to ambient pressure as possible.

If the TB is oversize all that command and feedback resolution approaching WOT is wasted.

Yes, we did, at length - hence why this thread turned into ... this thread

I can't fathom the cross section of the supercharger body inlet being lesser than the stock TB, or any of the Honda TB's, by a long shot. Looking at this image - there's no chance in hell.



What I _am_ concerned about is the quality (as it relates to flow) of the throttle body inlet, which I believe you echo'd in our conversation. I've seen this time and time again on many different kits. Those inlets aren't designed with power growth in mind... they're designed to bolt up to OEM components... boo. Custom inlets are made all the time, if there is demand. If someone made a custom inlet that provided a much larger flange that could attach to larger throttle bodies, the flow through the supercharger would increase dramatically.

And as I was trying to elaborate on as well, resolution isn't an issue anymore with electronic throttle bodies. You can tune whatever resolution you want into the pedal. I did it on both of my old supercharger setups, and Vit does it all the time for high boost SC Hondas.

The only real thing to be concerned with is that the TB isn't so large that even at it's most closed position it doesn't let so much air into the engine that the car can't idle correctly.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by johan

Yes, we did, at length - hence why this thread turned into ... this thread

Ah, yes. It all comes back now. Perhaps naively, I was considering this inlet area.


It would be helpful to have actual performance data but I can't seem to find any.

[stockysnail]

If you guys tell me my Sprintex 210 blower sucks and I should get X supercharger, and you can all agree with technical reasons, I'll sell it (would need help taking it off), and get agreed upon supercharger.

Mike at Moto-East has been testing the 335 Sprintex on his car and he's saying it's gets really hot and that e85 or meth is ideal. I was considering the 335 kit since it would be an upgrade to my existing 210 kit, but I'm also open to selling the 210 kit and getting something with better engineering/potential.

[thehapaone]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

If you guys tell me my Sprintex 210 blower sucks and I should get X supercharger, and you can all agree with technical reasons, I'll sell it (would need help taking it off), and get agreed upon supercharger.

Mike at Moto-East has been testing the 335 Sprintex on his car and he's saying it's gets really hot and that e85 or meth is ideal. I was considering the 335 kit since it would be an upgrade to my existing 210 kit, but I'm also open to selling the 210 kit and getting something with better engineering/potential.

If thats your approach sell it now and get the Harrop much better design and a better supercharger

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

If you guys tell me my Sprintex 210 blower sucks and I should get X supercharger, and you can all agree with technical reasons, I'll sell it (would need help taking it off), and get agreed upon supercharger.

Mike at Moto-East has been testing the 335 Sprintex on his car and he's saying it's gets really hot and that e85 or meth is ideal. I was considering the 335 kit since it would be an upgrade to my existing 210 kit, but I'm also open to selling the 210 kit and getting something with better engineering/potential.

You should buy the cosworth, and just because I'd like to see one in person

[johan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Ah, yes. It all comes back now. Perhaps naively, I was considering this inlet area.


It would be helpful to have actual performance data but I can't seem to find any.

whoa....

I think I stand corrected. That's just... wow.

Josh - abandon ship.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by johan

whoa....

I think I stand corrected. That's just... wow.

Josh - abandon ship.

To be fair, appearances can be deceiving. Given the shape, it can be pretty easy to figure out the area. I'm just not sure how that translates into throughput because of the relationship between the holes in that end plate and the screws themselves. It seems to be a standard solution. I've seen a few pictures of other blowers since getting involved in this. I am NOT a subject matter expert here.

Tell you what. I'll measure the compressor I have (not mine ) and figure out the inlet area just for those of us reading this. No conclusions. Just a dumb number.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by stockysnail

If you guys tell me my Sprintex 210 blower sucks and I should get X supercharger, and you can all agree with technical reasons, I'll sell it (would need help taking it off), and get agreed upon supercharger.

I don't think there's ANYTHING wrong with the Sprintex, per se. Yours especially is in great shape. Leave it alone. Enjoy it! Improvements are incremental. You would quickly get accustomed to the extra 15%-or-whatever and be searching for the next better thing.

The more I mess with it, the more I like the Sprintex. It's a sexy beast.

[j123ic]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Before folks get all carried away on the TB, remember it only needs to be as big as the cross-sectional area of the compressor intake. Anything bigger would be a waste. Do we know that value?

The intake cross sectional area of the E-Force 1320 is about 6,540mm^2
Measurement is taken from the exposed area of the TVS rotors only. Some parts of the rotors are obstructed with bearing and shaft supports. But it's significantly more open than the sprintex intake.



There's also plenty of meat on the TB flange for those of you interested in doing this. What is called the "Nose Drive" can easily be removed or separated from the supercharger to perform machining to properly port/enlarge the flange. The flange is ported to accept the OE throttle body ID of 66mm.