PAGING: TUNER GURUS! Cat-less header with tune, passing NC emissions

[-eXpo-]

Getting kind of bored of the quietness of my FRS (bone stock performance).
Really wanting to start piecing together my exhaust but passing emissions has me worried with getting a cat-less UEL header.

Backstory to explain my worry: Had a 2009 GTI, 3" cat less exhaust, and APR Stage 2 tune (that turns off the CEL from having no cat). But the way the tune turned off the CEL, was by putting the o2 in a "not ready" state. Which means when it comes time for inspection/emissions test, they plug in OBD port and see the o2 "not ready" and they technically fail you (in actuality, they say "go drive your car some more and come back later. Maybe it'll have set by then"). This made it a major pain when I had to go home, put my stock exhaust back on, go get a new tune (catted file), and then go back to get reinspected.

So back to the FRS, if i got a cat-less UEL then I will have a CEL. Looking at getting OFT tablet and using that to turn the CEL off. How do these tunes turn off the CEL? Are they all essentially doing the same thing that APR's tune did on my GTI? Or does it turn the light off, but show "ready" aiding me in passing inspection?

And help or insight on this?

[cjd]

Unless you can get no CEL with a catless header via a magically (and probably temporarily working) sensor spacer or some such, you'll have at least one "Not ready" returned. In many states, that's still a pass, but I don't know about NJ. Cat in the FP doesn't seem to do much harm for power (and if it's high flow it can get far too loud for my tastes...)

You could also go with something like the JDL catted header, which, while not as loud as it might be, still gets pretty loud, and delivers solid gains still.

Of course, I have no idea why people like to be loud.

[DJCarbine]

If you are going to be using romraider to adjust your tunes, you can simply turn off the secondary O2 sensor code. The catalyst efficiency emissions monitor will show READY/PASS.
If they don't do a visual you should be good.

Every real tuning solution I've used has an option to force readiness monitors to READY/PASS/COMPLETE, and at the very least an option to disable the secondary O2 sensor code.

[-eXpo-]

Originally Posted by cjd

Unless you can get no CEL with a catless header via a magically (and probably temporarily working) sensor spacer or some such, you'll have at least one "Not ready" returned. In many states, that's still a pass, but I don't know about NJ. Cat in the FP doesn't seem to do much harm for power (and if it's high flow it can get far too loud for my tastes...)

You could also go with something like the JDL catted header, which, while not as loud as it might be, still gets pretty loud, and delivers solid gains still.

Of course, I have no idea why people like to be loud.

Oh trust me, i have ZERO desire to be loud. Those days are over for me, guess you can say I grew out of it. (and quite frankly… these cars are slow, they have no business being loud lol)
But the stock exhaust seems to have no sound to it at all…. a very "airy" sound. Just want a little grunt and boxer rumble.
We can have 1 not-ready code here (at this time, unsure why my GTI had 2 not-ready codes when I took it to get inspected…), just wanting to cover all grounds before making any purchases. VW tuning and Toyota/Subaru tuning could be different… wasn't sure if the tunes for our cars were the same concept of setting the CEL in a not-ready state, or if there was some other way that was accomplished by keeping the CEL off in the software.

[cjd]

From everything I read, catless header and tune to kill the code is just one "not ready"

I actually like the sound I get, it's just... loud sometimes. But I knew that going in, trying to maximize results with a Nameless header (with a full 3", quiet as could be done as far as I hear... though everything but the header is JDL) I never kill it backing up, and I used to all the time because I couldn't hear it. Nice idle, nice cruising except at highway speeds (~70+) where it's just a touch too loud over time. Even at 55-60 it's nice. 3k is the problem. Nice burble, and I guess a little surprising for an EL header. And the power changes... What can I say.

[JimmyMac]

I had no issues with NC inspection with catless header and OFT tune.

[steve99]

Thankfully we dont have these yearly tests.

All tuning systems can turn off the CELcode P0420 for primary cat efficiency so you wont get cel light and cruise control will work.

However afaik no tuning soulution will get ALL readyness monitors to pass and complete.

you will get some not complete if you disable cel code p0420.

if they wont pass you with any readyness test not completed then you going to have to put stock header back on or try o2 spacer and reenable p0420.

ie you going to need a tuning system where you can flash back to stock or at least a modded tune to pass emmisions
getting a catted header is not going to guarantee it wont throw a cel code occasionally as the ecu is looking for a specific set of readings and aftermarket cats will not always produce the correct readings

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by steve99

However afaik no tuning soulution will get ALL readyness monitors to pass and complete.

you will get some not complete if you disable cel code p0420.

Do you know which monitors will say not complete? I've had the opposite experience in that if the monitor is supported it will read as complete. This with ecutek, romraider and the various other tuning software on other platforms I've used.

I've got my emissions readout here done a month ago with the catalyst efficiency monitor showing ready and the CEL is turned off in romraider

I've scanned the frs with an ecutek tune that disabled the secondary o2 and also gotten all monitors to show complete



I'm not trying to be a **** and say everyone else is wrong, maybe there are different ecu revisions or definition files that handle it differently?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

Do you know which monitors will say not complete? I've had the opposite experience in that if the monitor is supported it will read as complete. This with ecutek, romraider and the various other tuning software on other platforms I've used.

I've got my emissions readout here done a month ago with the catalyst efficiency monitor showing ready and the CEL is turned off in romraider

I've scanned the frs with an ecutek tune that disabled the secondary o2 and also gotten all monitors to show complete



I'm not trying to be a **** and say everyone else is wrong, maybe there are different ecu revisions or definition files that handle it differently?

no problem it an ongoing debate :-)

see here from Delicious tuning
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...27&postcount=7

as i said we dont have those checks in my country but been told it varies between states in USA some more strict than others

some just check cels
some visual
some want all readyness check pass/complete
some will accept a couple of checks incomplete status if all else ok

I can only go off my own car disabled CEL P0420 but torque app shows catalyst readiness check incomplete.

might be different with ecutek but according to deliceous tuning ecutek does not force readyness either as per above link

another thread here, seems pretty random even on ecutek tunes
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34704

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by steve99

might be different with ecutek but according to deliceous tuning ecutek does not force readyness either as per above link.

That might be a CYA statement, as fiddling with any of the emissions monitors would be a federal crime in the US I would think.

I could scan my emissions test and upload it, but maybe this is one of those "features" that should not have a lot of publicity brought about.

[Akari]

I played this game before with my catless STi. Even with the sensor turned off I was failing the readiness test.

Finally went to the local auto parts store, bought two spark plug anti foulers, screwed them together and used them as a O2 sensor extension. Was able to turn the sensor back on in the tune and never had any problems passing emissions after that.

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by Akari

I played this game before with my catless STi. Even with the sensor turned off I was failing the readiness test.

Finally went to the local auto parts store, bought two spark plug anti foulers, screwed them together and used them as a O2 sensor extension. Was able to turn the sensor back on in the tune and never had any problems passing emissions after that.

I can confirm that on a 2005 WRX, turning off the O2 sensor and forcing readiness will result in a "Complete" monitor for catalyst efficiency

Was yours a 32 bit ECU?

[ryoma]

would spacing out the 2nd o2 sensor in the header be the fix then? or is it not reliable for our cars?

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by ryoma

would spacing out the 2nd o2 sensor in the header be the fix then? or is it not reliable for our cars?

If software allows you to disable and show "ready/complete" that would be the most foolproof way.

If not, then the defouler/spacer method would be the next best bet. I've had mixed results with the defouler on other platforms, but no experience with it on the FRS. Looks like people have good luck with it on the FRS, and its cheap and easy. Not sure if they would be able to spot it on the visual inspection if your state does that.