Better handling by removing/reducing swaybars? - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Captain Snooze · 08-10-2015, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad_W

At the same time you replaced the OEM sway bars with ones 2-3mm less in diameter... Would you retain some ride comfort here, while shifting some of the anti roll responsibility to your now stiffer strut/spring combo?

I'm really only thinking about this for a street application. The desired result would be to not sacrifice too much compliance, while going to a slightly more aggressive spring/strut combo

Why are you ignoring damper quality from your scenario?

EAGLE5 · 08-10-2015, 02:30 AM

The FR-S will understeer until you apply power or jerk it into a corner. Then it will happily oversteer. Damnit.

Ultramaroon · 08-10-2015, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The FR-S will understeer until you apply power or jerk it into a corner. Then it will happily oversteer. Damnit.

Not my experience. I apply power and it just plows more.

Chad_W · 08-10-2015, 11:41 AM

Awesome data! Thanks for all the input.

Is it fair to say that not all roll is bad? Going completely flat around corners my be a desirable trait, but does that mean it offers the ultimate amount of grip? Can a suspension with a little bit of roll be grippier (like the new Miata for example)?

Chad_W · 08-10-2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Why are you ignoring damper quality from your scenario?

In this case I'm saying the OEM dampers are getting switched with Bilsteins.

wparsons · 08-10-2015, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The FR-S will understeer until you apply power or jerk it into a corner. Then it will happily oversteer. Damnit.

You can coax it into oversteering, but you can do that with almost any car with the right (or wrong) inputs. I find it easier to get lift oversteer than power on oversteer from mine.

EAGLE5 · 08-10-2015, 12:08 PM

Yes, lifting mid corner will take the weight off the back tires and induce oversteer. That makes the car rotate too. There is so much to EASILY play with on the frs's stock suspension and tires, it's kind of amazing. I love it. My one spin yesterday was power oversteer.

Gunman · 08-10-2015, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad_W

Awesome data! Thanks for all the input.

Is it fair to say that not all roll is bad?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad_W

Going completely flat around corners my be a desirable trait, but does that mean it offers the ultimate amount of grip? Can a suspension with a little bit of roll be grippier (like the new Miata for example)?

During a Claude Rouelle seminar, he talked about roll, and weight transfer, and that due to the weight transfer in roll, the outside tires can gain more grip than the inside tires lose. So, up to a point, weight transfer via roll is a good thing, to gain grip.

GSpeed · 08-10-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunman

Yes.

During a Claude Rouelle seminar, he talked about roll, and weight transfer, and that due to the weight transfer in roll, the outside tires can gain more grip than the inside tires lose. So, up to a point, weight transfer via roll is a good thing, to gain grip.

I would LOVE to take one of his seminars again. It's so much more expensive when you're not an FSAE student!

Jake

Racecomp Engineering · 08-10-2015, 02:44 PM

Any of you guys going to PRI this year?

Oh and on topic...the stock front swaybar contributes quite a bit more to roll-resistance than the rear bar. Removing the front bar would have much more of an impact than removing the rear bar (and IMO it wouldn't be an improvement for MOST set-ups).

- Andrew

Ultramaroon · 08-10-2015, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PST

I would LOVE to take one of his seminars again. It's so much more expensive when you're not an FSAE student!

Jake

Yay FSAE. Go Lobos!

fika84 · 08-10-2015, 04:03 PM

I used to work for Claude Rouelle. For 2 years. The only people that look up to him, are FSAE students. He is despised by the professional world.

It all depends on the tires and what they want.

Ultramaroon · 08-10-2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fika84

I used to work for Claude Rouelle. For 2 years. The only people that look up to him, are FSAE students. He is despised by the professional world.

It all depends on the tires and what they want.

Care to elaborate?

Racecomp Engineering · 08-10-2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fika84

I used to work for Claude Rouelle. For 2 years. The only people that look up to him, are FSAE students. He is despised by the professional world.

It all depends on the tires and what they want.

Interesting.

- Andrew

08-10-2015, 02:44 PM	#24
Racecomp Engineering Join Date: Nov 2011 Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI Location: Severn, MD Posts: 5,520 Thanks: 3,542 Thanked 7,415 Times in 3,033 Posts Mentioned: 311 Post(s) Tagged: 9 Thread(s)	Any of you guys going to PRI this year? Oh and on topic...the stock front swaybar contributes quite a bit more to roll-resistance than the rear bar. Removing the front bar would have much more of an impact than removing the rear bar (and IMO it wouldn't be an improvement for MOST set-ups). - Andrew Last edited by Racecomp Engineering; 08-10-2015 at 04:57 PM.

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08-10-2015, 11:41 AM	#18
Chad_W Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 BRZ DGM Location: Westchester NY Posts: 113 Thanks: 15 Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Awesome data! Thanks for all the input. Is it fair to say that not all roll is bad? Going completely flat around corners my be a desirable trait, but does that mean it offers the ultimate amount of grip? Can a suspension with a little bit of roll be grippier (like the new Miata for example)?

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