What is Automotive Luxury today?

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by NWFRS

I agree completely.

Real wood. Leather. Aluminum. Stainless steel.
Good materials, IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY only get better with age and use. Man made materials like plastic, rubber and vinyl will never be as nice as the day they were made, they have a lifespan, and they're disposable.

We're not talking about branding here. Anyone can build a luxurious car with beautiful materials, it would be priced accordingly though. I think that everyone is capable of recognizing good quality, but few of us are willing to pay for it. Some of us are tricked by bonded leather and textured plastics, but in the end you get what you pay for.

....and I bought a Scion.

Maintenance and a good undercover garage protecting from the elements is paramount. I've seen some old A6's that could be in shameful condition because of this.


I went a few months ago contemplating the new Mustang. Sitting in that boat, the luxury features offered made it fathomable to do. The dealer told me the interior was made of agricultural scraps. He smelled bad so now I'm still stuck with my Scion.


Did some research and wouldn't mind seeing more cars made of soy(I'm a believer that soy is a poison if the subject doesn't even enjoy it from the mouth), coconuts and used chopsticks. Could these materials hold up over time from humidity and heat? If so, it be weird to see high-end luxury brands incorporate these fibres into product lines over time.

[df.dima]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

Did some research and wouldn't mind seeing more cars made of soy(I'm a believer that soy is a poison if the subject doesn't even enjoy it from the mouth), coconuts and used chopsticks. Could these materials hold up over time from humidity and heat? If so, it be weird to see high-end luxury brands incorporate these fibres into product lines over time.

Close enough, maybe you heard it, Mazda is doing some bio-plastic stuff... So not that crazy of an idea .

This is a very interesting topic, I feel there was a big effort and a lot of emphasis done lately by manufacturers to make interiors "look" luxury, but they don't feel or wear like luxury.

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by df.dima

Close enough, maybe you heard it, Mazda is doing some bio-plastic stuff... So not that crazy of an idea .

This is a very interesting topic, I feel there was a big effort and a lot of emphasis done lately by manufacturers to make interiors "look" luxury, but they don't feel or wear like luxury.

I've said it before and will say it again; I have always liked the old, old Landcruisers.


Not sure if you're familiar with the show, Pimp my Ride; but if that Landcruiser is well maintained, I would easily trade my 86 for it. I wouldn't even mind front loading some funds into that thing after the sale either.

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by 1GiantTurtle

70k for a 3 series????? did it come with 3 years worth of gas??

He's Canadian, cars are more expensive here. My parents paid $65k for their new 335 coupe in 2007.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by Mr.Impreza

I don't agree, in my bmw 335i coupe executive package model that cost $70,000 had leather peeling off in the left hand rest and the steering wheel had material peeling off. So i don't agree about the quality being better.

Also it had horrible sound insulation in the windows and you could always hear wind noise.

So far my accord is proving that you can buy a car for $30,000 and have the same quality or better.

Okay okay...the leather isn't as soft...but nothing is peeling and the insulation is perfect.

Your paying for a badge...i can't believe some people still try to fight that and say the "quality" is better.

Your current Accord is barely two years old at this point. Your 335 however sounds like you suffer from oily skin. The only time we ever see peeling is from people with oily skin (PS I work for BMW.), it's RARE that you'll see the stitching coming apart for whatever reason.... but stranger things have happened.

Now having worked for Non-highline brands and experiencing their perception of luxury vs currently working for an actual luxury brand and dealing with their cars it boils down to build quality and materials used. No matter what you do hard plastics and imitation or lesser quality leather will never match up to the better materials used in luxury car comfort packages (I say packages because base model luxury is significantly worse than lowerline luxury. At that point you're definitely just paying for a badge and refined suspension... at least in BMW's case). In addition to this smaller things are taken into account at such a miniscule level you'd be baffled to see how much they pay attention to/take into account when building these luxury vehicles. Even something as simple as noting the natural seating position of most drivers to offer some amenity or piece of tech that would lessen stress when behind the wheel; stress the driver might not have even known was there but definitely notices when it wasn't.
I hear, "there's something about this car that I can't put my finger on.... but it's definitely one of the best cars I've ever owned" all day long. That is your red flag for some small detail the engineers took notice of and changed that the driver unknowingly appreciated.

If you don't believe me drive the new F30 3 series or F32 4 series. You may not appreciate the synthetic road feel offered by the Electric power steering (it becomes tolerable in the sport line models which do a purposefully better job at not numbing the road), but you'll definitely notice that it's nothing to bat an eye at in terms of performance and general enjoyment.



Sounds like I should own one right? Especially working for them....
Trust me I would.... but their still bloody expensive to own out of warranty and even more expensive to modify correctly. You probably know that already having owned an E9X 335i. PS. no more issues with the HPFP's (high pressure fuel pumps); seems the biggest contributor to that was the amount of ethanol we use in our fuel and the quality gas we get here in the states/canada. They weren't having those issues in Europe... at least not on the same scale we were. On a whole the new F3X's are much more well behaved.




I can't speak much for Audi, Mercedes, Acura, Infinity, Lincoln and Cadillac having never worked closely with them; but can only assume it's roughly the same.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by f0rge

Looking at an interior in pics and living with one are very different things.

Refinement, material quality and build quality are all very important things that you can't get out of a picture. Real metal and wood instead of plastic, better leather, quality soft touch materials, sound insulation, etc.

Gadgets is not the same as luxury. I won't deny that the entry level interiors have come a long way, but there's still a gap.

While I agree that looking and pics and living with an interior for years are completely different things I also think it's laughable to think that the German cars have better materials simply because they are german. My BMW has more interior shit that has gone wrong or worn out that any of my other cars. Everyone I know with modern German cars, except for Porsche, have as many problems with wear as I do in much newer cars because, IMO, the quality has gone DOWN not up in the last decade or so. VAG is just a complete joke with it comes to quality interiors after they are 3 years old. Soft touch shit just falls off. Headliners fall down, plastic breaks.


They feel great on the show room floor though.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

While I agree that looking and pics and living with an interior for years are completely different things I also think it's laughable to think that the German cars have better materials simply because they are german. My BMW has more interior shit that has gone wrong or worn out that any of my other cars. Everyone I know with modern German cars, except for Porsche, have as many problems with wear as I do in much newer cars because, IMO, the quality has gone DOWN not up in the last decade or so. VAG is just a complete joke with it comes to quality interiors after they are 3 years old. Soft touch shit just falls off. Headliners fall down, plastic breaks.


They feel great on the show room floor though.

You really hear that much negativity about German luxury cars? Their Baseline crap is usually just that.... crap. But the executive, comfort and sport packages are pretty up there in quality...
The M-line and individual line (especially the individual) are beyond rediculous as far quality though.

It's more that they use real wood, real carbon fiber, real brushed aluminum and so on so forth. Ever notice how non-existent play is in things as minute as the HVAC buttons? The only time we usually end up having to replace non-broken ones is because things like the writing will fade over time (or faster depending on the owner)

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

You really hear that much negativity about German luxury cars? Their Baseline crap is usually just that.... crap. But the executive, comfort and sport packages are pretty up there in quality...
The M-line and individual line (especially the individual) are beyond rediculous as far quality though.

It's more that they use real wood, real carbon fiber, real brushed aluminum and so on so forth. Ever notice how non-existent play is in things as minute as the HVAC buttons? The only time we usually end up having to replace non-broken ones is because things like the writing will fade over time (or faster depending on the owner)

Of all of the M car owners I know, all but those with the newest models complain about various issues with the interiors. The newest ones are just too new.

But hell I'd rather hear about interior wear than subframe cracks.. oh wait.. they do that too.. or rods installed backwards.. oh shit, that was BMW, an M3 at that, too.

Oh well.

I like driving my M3 and the others I've driven (except for the pig E46s) but I won't even follow the fanboy logic into thinking that they are actually well built cars. It's not so much the engineering, it's the completely shit components/materials that are used. Well except for those subframe tearouts, shock tower tears, control arm mount tears, etc... that's engineering. And I wouldn't mind if they could find a way to avoid using that dumb flexdisc, it is possible with a little effort spent on balancing and engineering. Maybe those aren't used on the newest ones though, haven't gotten under one as I refuse to help owners of new ones with car work. Some of the decisions on the 4.0 V8 design in the 540s, etc are pretty damn retarded also.


For BMW, the older and lower series you go the better off you are IMO.


MB I honestly don't know anyone with a modern one. I don't hang out with many that would buy one due to the transmission. VAG are just terrible. I can't think of a single redeeming quality. P-Cars have their issues also of course and the same "buy older" is true with them like BMW unless you don't mind being one of the early, and therefore expensive, beta testers.

[tahdizzle]

this is automotive luxury

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

this is automotive luxury

Takes you right back to the cost of maintenance issues though!

[synchromesh]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Takes you right back to the cost of maintenance issues though!

Have no fear Canadian kids! Move and cross border to your grandparents house rent free! Minimum wage is like 20 bucks an hour! That's Ferrari territory if room and board is at no charge!!

[EAGLE5]

A 3-series is not a luxury car, nor is the A4. The 5-series and up are luxury cars. For Mercedes, it's E-class and up. Quietness, ride quality, and comfort. It's the kind of think you don't notice when you get in. You notice it when you get into a non-luxury car. Things like more sophisticated door seals, more layers of lamination in the glass, liquid-filled bushings, active antiroll bars, more adjustable seats with power every which way, memory for all those settings, a seat that slides away from the steering wheel that moves up and away, making getting into the car much easier, comfort six hours into a trip, a much better stereo, little or no noise from outside, better crash protection (on average), prettier materials, little nets here and there to hold your stuff, a little flashlight for when you have to change a flat in the dark, exterior lights to make getting out and in easier in the dark, interior lights in all the nooks and crannies but without that blinding dome light, plush and soft floor materials, no exposed bits, exterior trim that doesn't brake, little tie downs in the trunk, little hatches here and there to store stuff, under-body sound damping so you don't hear every pebble...

Oh, and then there's the dealer experience. It's not even close. Not by a million miles.

Sure, you can get a VW in leather, but it's still a VW. You can base an Audi on the same chassis, but it's lipstick on a pig. Lexus doesn't get decent until the G series. The is series is blah for luxury. Fun to drive, though. Porsche? The 996 feels like an 80s Honda with leather. The 997 is decent but nothing to write home about. After that, I haven't sad in one. CTS? The 1st gen was made of glue and shit. The 2nd gen was OK. Haven't looked at the current gen because, well, I don't believe that third time is the charm.

But how do I really feel?

[Purdue FR-S]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

What is "luxury". Considering how a large percentage of the human race lives, if you have indoor plumbing and access to sanitary drinking water, you live a life of luxury.

Luxury is an interesting concept, as it's meaningless in the absence of a qualifying comparison.

lux·u·ry
ˈləkSH(ə)rē,ˈləɡZH(ə)rē/Submit
noun
1.
the state of great comfort and extravagant living.

Excellent point you raise. I guess here we mean whatever is defined as the luxury segment in the North American car market... but the concept itself is quite subjective.


Interesting we haven't mentioned any North American luxury brands here...

What about things like:


or the soon to be:

[rice_classic]

Pop Quiz.

Is this a Luxury car?







I guess it depends on if your current mode of transportation is this:



Or this: