Piper Camshafts

[RJasonKlein]

Hey, everyone - I'm the one who sent a message to Piper in post #3, and I just wanted to let everyone know I never got a response from them. I'll update the thread if I do.

[celek]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

Hey, everyone - I'm the one who sent a letter to Piper in post #3, and I just wanted to let everyone know I never got a response from them. I'll update the thread if I do.

Talked to them VIA FB last week.
Their web page was down the last few days, maybe server problems.

I will see them at PRI in December.

[RJasonKlein]

Originally Posted by celek

Talked to them VIA FB last week.
Their web page was down the last few days, maybe server problems.

I will see them at PRI in December.

Thanks for the heads up - I'll send them the message a second time.

[airjonny]

Don't even have the car yet and I'm excited!

[RJasonKlein]

Hey, everyone - here's the update we've been waiting for. I got a response from Piper directing me to Tim Radley at Race Developments, who has been working with Piper while developing several neat items for our platform. I sent him an e-mail and here's the response I got from him:

Hi Jason,

I'm running the soft spec cam in my current build. See attached dyno chart. These drive just as a normal car and i'm running a Motec ecu. In fact with the mapping, it's significantly better than stock and doesn't have that torque lurch at low throttle openings that causes many drivers of these cars to stall at junctions. The graph shows the improvement going from stock car to cams, blueprint and exhaust then mapped on Motec. Also that runs the Piper single springs and i'm running the engine to 8000rpm safely for 1500 miles now.

It actually goes a lot better than the dyno chart would suggest. Here is an in-car video doing a launch on a cold day on stock tyres.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmbyV4EzqI8"]RD GT86 launch control - YouTube[/ame]


Hits 60mph in 2nd gear but on stock rubber the grip is very poor. I've got some new wheels and tyres to go on in 2 weeks and also some new dampers. I'm confident it will do mid to high 5's to 60 as it is with all that.

Next I will try the 3462/3465 spec cam from Piper along with their dual springs. I think these will add 10bhp more on stock setup but the problem with this engine is the intake manifold. The design is bad.

A lot of people are struggling with this engine to get power, even the race guys when NA. I'm confident it can be good but it requires quite a few parts changing.

I've got everything for a turbo build after and will run a sequential box so there will be lots of development coming off the back of this. I don't want to do turbo until i've proven out the NA stuff a bit more first though.

Also will be looking at a dry sump option too.

Regards

Tim

Tim is actually on this forum, so maybe he can jump in and give us more information as he continues his development work. Lastly, he supplied a picture of the dyno chart, so I'll attach it below.

[RJasonKlein]

Tim also supplied a picture of a header he's working on, so I'll attach it below.

[hmong337]

8000rpm is fitting for this car.

[swarb]

I would like to know what he means by motor build. Like what else does he have in addition to the cams/springs/exhaust/motec. Header?

[swarb]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

One thing i forgot to add. The camshafts out of my stock 2014 Toyota GT86 measured up differently to the ones Piper had from a 2012 Subaru BRZ. Lift, duration and pin location were all different. It appears there are variations in stock cams between models.

The valves are also .7mm longer too, I think it was for the 2015. I forgot where I found that at, but it was a new part number.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

that causes many drivers of these cars to stall at junctions.

With due respect it is not the car's fault if the driver stalls it.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

The stock head has way too much flow for the power it's making. Air speed is really bad too. Comparing to some other N/A heads, its making as much flow as ones that do 260bhp so the fact it doesn't make that is down to the combination of other parts.

*raises hand*
Ummm... the FA20 is a new engine and I'm guessing that the crowd who designed the engine would have had their reasons for designing it the way they did.
(This is not a snarky "designers know everything" post.)
What might the reasons be for making the engine the way it is? I'm guessing there is a trade off in there somewhere.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

I stripped the engine and blueprinted it using all stock parts except for the cams and springs. I put the head on the flowbench and fixed some issues there too.

The stock head has way too much flow for the power it's making. Air speed is really bad too. Comparing to some other N/A heads, its making as much flow as ones that do 260bhp so the fact it doesn't make that is down to the combination of other parts.

I've yet to touch the intake manifold and my feeling is that a problem area. Logging what I do in the ecu I can see several issues going on. When i fix them i'll post up details. Just short of time for the project right now.

Just to confirm, was the dyno on the stock exhaust manifold aswell?

I've been noticing some of your posts around the boards, I'm really excited by what you've been doing.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

Hey, everyone - here's the update we've been waiting for. I got a response from Piper directing me to Tim Radley at Race Developments, who has been working with Piper while developing several neat items for our platform. I sent him an e-mail and here's the response I got from him:

Hi Jason,

I'm running the soft spec cam in my current build. See attached dyno chart. These drive just as a normal car and i'm running a Motec ecu. In fact with the mapping, it's significantly better than stock and doesn't have that torque lurch at low throttle openings that causes many drivers of these cars to stall at junctions. The graph shows the improvement going from stock car to cams, blueprint and exhaust then mapped on Motec. Also that runs the Piper single springs and i'm running the engine to 8000rpm safely for 1500 miles now.

It actually goes a lot better than the dyno chart would suggest. Here is an in-car video doing a launch on a cold day on stock tyres.

Hits 60mph in 2nd gear but on stock rubber the grip is very poor. I've got some new wheels and tyres to go on in 2 weeks and also some new dampers. I'm confident it will do mid to high 5's to 60 as it is with all that.

Next I will try the 3462/3465 spec cam from Piper along with their dual springs. I think these will add 10bhp more on stock setup but the problem with this engine is the intake manifold. The design is bad.

A lot of people are struggling with this engine to get power, even the race guys when NA. I'm confident it can be good but it requires quite a few parts changing.

I've got everything for a turbo build after and will run a sequential box so there will be lots of development coming off the back of this. I don't want to do turbo until i've proven out the NA stuff a bit more first though.

Also will be looking at a dry sump option too.

Regards

Tim

Tim is actually on this forum, so maybe he can jump in and give us more information as he continues his development work. Lastly, he supplied a picture of the dyno chart, so I'll attach it below.

Quite amazing that it appears that arround 200whp on a dynojet is the max you get NA

you can get their with cheap headers and E85
or petrol cheap headers and full exhaust
or ultra expensive headers stock exhaust on petrol
or cams head work and likely headers and exhaust as per @Tim Radley

appears something at that power level is holding it back.

[celek]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

I stripped the engine and blueprinted it using all stock parts except for the cams and springs. I put the head on the flowbench and fixed some issues there too.

The stock head has way too much flow for the power it's making. Air speed is really bad too. Comparing to some other N/A heads, its making as much flow as ones that do 260bhp so the fact it doesn't make that is down to the combination of other parts.

I've yet to touch the intake manifold and my feeling is that a problem area. Logging what I do in the ecu I can see several issues going on. When i fix them i'll post up details. Just short of time for the project right now.

Flows too much?
This is good news for my 2.3ltr build....

As for the cams with a stock engine what kind of max lift do you think we can use with stock Pistons?
HKS states you have to use their pistons with their cams.
But the only way to get the pistons is with the $5k Stroker kit.

When I had my pistons made I allotted room for 1mm Over valves and a 13mm Lift. I may never use it but it is there.