Paddle shifters in a classic?

[Nevermore]

Here's a potentially controversial question for you. Say I want to get a classic car eventually (Datsun 240z, BMW E10, something) and I really love the auto in my FR-S so I'd like something like it in whatever else I drive. I'm not saying I want to stuff an FR-S transmission into a different car, but is there something I could work with? Could it be done?

I get that the cost will probably be high, but would it be impossibly high, or high, but doable? If it's even possible? Could one be retrofitted from another car, or would it have to be fabbed new?

[Atticus808]

I'm normally not the type to say automatics suck cause they don't.
but no. don't do that

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

It's certainly doable. However, if you're not building a pro-touring muscle car, there won't be off the shelf parts and many things will have to be fabbed/custom made, like transmission crossmembers, driveshafts, and possibly shifters. But you can certainly put a modern automatic that has the capability to be manually shifted into an older car and then fab up paddle shift selectors on the wheel. People have already done it with GM's 6L90 and will soon be doing it with the 8L90. It just all depends on how much time and money you want to spend.

Well, I hardly use the paddles in my FR-S, so I could at least skip the steering wheel fab and work on the shifter in the dash. If it isn't like, 50% of the build cost, I think I'll be willing to swing it.

[pushrod]

Getting the transmission to mate to a different engine would be the #1 issue.

#2 would be sourcing a transmission controller and giving it all the inputs to actually know when to shift gears. Even if you wanted it to be a "manual" with just paddle shifters, you still need to actually have the paddles talk to the transmission.

Another option is to just forget it. Putting a modern auto in a classic car is like going on a wilderness trip and bringing an iPad.

[drewbot]

Maybe since there's very little development, the TCM hasn't been played with even on the AT inside the twins. So mating it to a another might be the roadblock if you even get all the mechanical details donw

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Here's a potentially controversial question for you. Say I want to get a classic car eventually (Datsun 240z, BMW E10, something) and I really love the auto in my FR-S so I'd like something like it in whatever else I drive. I'm not saying I want to stuff an FR-S transmission into a different car, but is there something I could work with? Could it be done?

I get that the cost will probably be high, but would it be impossibly high, or high, but doable? If it's even possible? Could one be retrofitted from another car, or would it have to be fabbed new?

Please don't do something this dumb

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by pushrod

Another option is to just forget it. Putting a modern auto in a classic car is like going on a wilderness trip and bringing an iPad.

Originally Posted by brianhj

Please don't do something this dumb

And here's where that controversial thing I mentioned comes in. I knew there would be people of the opinion that I shouldn't do it and that it was stupid. Pushrod I get, classic cars should stay classic. Got it. Though what I'm planning on doing is have a classic on the outside, brand new car on the inside. I'm not just planning on replacing the transmission, but the engine too. And you might say, "Go to the dealership and buy a new car. Don't ruin a classic." But they don't make any new cars that look as good as the old ones. If I'm going to buy an old one, I want it to be perfect. People might disagree, but that's just how I want it.

brianhj, I might regret asking, but why exactly is it dumb? Besides the typical "ruining a classic" and making it less "pure" reasons.

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

And here's where that controversial thing I mentioned comes in. I knew there would be people of the opinion that I shouldn't do it and that it was stupid. Pushrod I get, classic cars should stay classic. Got it. Though what I'm planning on doing is have a classic on the outside, brand new car on the inside. I'm not just planning on replacing the transmission, but the engine too. And you might say, "Go to the dealership and buy a new car. Don't ruin a classic." But they don't make any new cars that look as good as the old ones. If I'm going to buy an old one, I want it to be perfect. People might disagree, but that's just how I want it.

Sorry if you interpreted my post that way. I owe you a couple internets.

I get your plan and it is pretty common: wanting a cool old car that doesn't run like an old, shitty car. However, a computerized automatic retrofit is a tall order. That is the part I am cautioning against. I also think it would give you an odd experience, as I said in my last sentence. Things like carbs spitting flames and not starting on cold days is shitty and annoying, but having a slightly notchy manual transmission or an auto that chirps the tires on gear changes can complement the "old car" experience. I think you would not get what you want from doing a modern automatic install in an old car. I could be wrong, and if you think I am, then I think you should do it and enjoy it.

There's a guy on GarageJournal that was putting an entire EcoBoost powertrain into a really old F-Series. Hundreds of posts later, he has a hacked up truck that doesn't run and pictures of some sort of skin infection.

It's really up to you. You'll need to deal with the electronics, and fabricating the flappy paddles (or buttons or levers) to get the job done.

[bcj]

The Gas Monkey Garage new Challenger junk swapped into old Challenger body + suspension looked to be a major poop inducer.
They needed the whole motor/transmission (didn't fit) plus all the sensors.
No wheel/drivetrain sensors? Uhm...

It sounds nice, but will likely require a full shop and lots of hours to make it right.

[computeruser]

If you look at some of the folks who swap modern Porsche guts into old Porsches, or modern BMW guts into 2002s, it is certainly a cool idea and it can definitely be done, but to do it right ends up being a six-figure proposition. Anything short of that is, to my mind, a cobbled-together mess that has harmed, or maybe even ruined, a classic.

I truly get the desire to have a classic with modern guts. I've driven classics as daily drivers back in the '90s - MG, gen1 Camaro - and it was fun. I spent years, decades, dreaming of putting together a classic-modern hybrid and using that as my retro daily driver. But knowing what I know now, I have given up on that idea; they have no crash protection, are salt-magnets (if you elect to drive year-round), and are money pits. As I have grown older, being able to walk away from a crash has become more important to me. Keeping my bank balance healthy has crept up the priority list, also.

If you want a classic, get one and enjoy it for what it is. If you want a driver with paddles and a modern drivetrain, there are tons of good options on the new/lightly used market. But think long and hard about trying to mate the two ideas.

[dem00n]

It's be done tons of times.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHyZgP84IJU&index=44&list=PL933202463D47A1 C2"]The Cars of Queens: Part II - /BIG MUSCLE - YouTube[/ame]

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Standalone transmission controllers are available

For super-common domestic builds, yes.

[Nevermore]

I like the guy with the '69 charger in that video. He says it perfectly. It was the car he wanted so he built it. I mean, if it turns out the paddles aren't viable financially then I guess I'll think of something else.

[Poodles]

Yes, this has been done with Aisin transmissions before (people have done it on Supras), and it's not a bad idea. The main hard part is doing the paddles if you want they to be part of the steering wheel and not attached to the column.