No front anti-sway bar=a better ride

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Wait, that isn't what you guys do too???

They're Subarus...you can go back to a 1993 Impreza on some of these parts.

But you probably shouldn't use the same damper cartridge for EVERY CAR EVER MADE like some do.

Our R&D is a little bit more involved thanks to the capabilities of our partners.

- Andy

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

They're Subarus...you can go back to a 1993 Impreza on some of these parts.

Correction: 1990 Legacy

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by wparsons

For the same width and overall diameter, a 16" tire will be heavier than a 17". More rubber, and more sidewall reinforcement.

Thats what you would think, but if you look at specific tire specs some are lighter as 16's and others are lighter as 17's. Depends entirely on the specific tire.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Why do people keep running stiffer springs up front? Do they even look at the geometry before making decisions?

The effective wheel rates put that as incredibly front biased, it must understeer like crazy at turn in.

12.5 * 0.95^2 = 11.3kg/mm at the front wheel
10.2 * 0.75^2 = 5.7kg/mm at the rear wheel

if you flipped the springs front to rear it's still front biased, but not nearly as bad:

10.2 * 0..95^2 = 9.2kg/mm at the front wheel
12.5 * 0.75^2 = 7.0kg/mm at the rear wheel

I know it's not the norm, but at some point, you do need a frontward bias when you can just break the rear loose effortlessly

Now, carry on, I like this discussion!

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

While it's clear to us, most of the coilovers from Taiwan (and some from Japan) coilovers come setup with a significant front bias.

This is how I imagine their R&D teams:

The sway bars are front biased, the stock spring rear biased. I'd imagine if one were to remove both sway bars they would want to change the spring bias to compensate.

[jvincent]

Taking this thread to the next level.......

If no sway-bar is good, how about no springs up front. Hell why not take out the whole strut?

Think of how planted the car would feel.

[*Hachiroku86*]

Originally Posted by adamg

so sick of ignorant "track guys" on this forum

you mad bro?

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Taking this thread to the next level.......

If no sway-bar is good, how about no springs up front. Hell why not take out the whole strut?

Think of how planted the car would feel.

Yeah, I have an idea...

[*Hachiroku86*]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

It wasn't till last night that I got my suspension to give a halfway decent ride.

should of just left it stock...

[BRZChix]

Originally Posted by adamg

so sick of ignorant "track guys" on this forum

feel free to take a sick leave

[mokinbird87]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I've gone to a lot of time and trouble to try to get a better ride on the street from my BRZ. I've tried Airlift coilovers, KW V3, Hypermax GT IV, Bilstein HD, used FR-S suspension and if it's too soft I get bounced around, and if it's too stiff I feel every wrinkle on the road. Then I read a thread by @captain_snooze where he had his anti-sway bars removed, and AST5200 coilovers installed. He liked the new ride so much I decided to try removing the front anti-sway bar from my BRZ. I also installed my Bilstein HD's with BRZ front springs, (27 N/mm), and FR-S rear springs, (37 N/mm). I'm not getting much leaning yet, because I still have on my stock rear anti-sway bar, but I'm going to remove that one as well, just to see how it rides. Best of all, this "fix" is completely free, unlike a lot of suggestions out there.

have you tried the Ohlins R&T? i think it rides better than stock and outperforms it for sure... i mean, if you have the budget to try multiple set ups (including V3) give it a try.

[KoolBRZ]

My front sway bar is back on now, and my rear sway bar is removed. I also have my summer setup installed right now, HKS Hypermax GT IV 6K front 4k rear with 3" helpers on the rears. I'm learning the importance of preload right now, and adjusting the dampening to get the best compromise.

[aagun]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Why do people keep running stiffer springs up front? Do they even look at the geometry before making decisions?

The effective wheel rates put that as incredibly front biased, it must understeer like crazy at turn in.

12.5 * 0.95^2 = 11.3kg/mm at the front wheel
10.2 * 0.75^2 = 5.7kg/mm at the rear wheel

if you flipped the springs front to rear it's still front biased, but not nearly as bad:

10.2 * 0..95^2 = 9.2kg/mm at the front wheel
12.5 * 0.75^2 = 7.0kg/mm at the rear wheel

at my tune it is balanced and it is under steer and overseer at the same time while fast cornering , flexible drive and it is slider

OK , suspension tuning is a huge system that the drifters or modification use it to adjustment rolling and driving feel and allowed us to get better way to control the car.

as we know there are two ways the car jumps to while driving it at corner , one of it is under-steering and other one is over-steering .

there are many things effect in both things like tire pressure at front and rear tires , Width of the car from the front and the rear with driver, Width of the tires ,tire Aspect Ratio , tire Section Width , tire tread depth , wider and lighter wheels , camber , toe , caster , Anti-Sway bars , Spring rates , Shock absorbers , Suspension Bushings , Brake Proportioning , Aerodynamics.

check http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs...ver-under.html

so to get the right balance you need a lot of time and tests .

top gear fun
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoICf55jED8"]Top Gear Understeer and Oversteer explained - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0_w3C840uw"]Car Control: Oversteer, Understeer and Braking (What to do in emergency situations) - YouTube[/ame]

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Calum

The sway bars are front biased, the stock spring rear biased. I'd imagine if one were to remove both sway bars they would want to change the spring bias to compensate.

Except the stock springs aren't really rear biased when you look at the motion ratios. On the FRS they are ever so slightly rear biased, on the BRZ they're front biased.

FRS

2.3k * 0.95^2 = 2.09k
3.8k * 0.75^2 = 2.14k

BRZ

2.7k * 0.95^2 = 2.44k
3.5k * 0.75^2 = 1.96k

Factor in the front bias from the sway bars and overall it's front biased on both cars.