FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I'd agree with pressure drop due to long and/or narrow lines but all other things being equal, the increased cross-sectional area offered by a bigger core would result in it contributing less to pressure drop of the overall system, no?

Doesn't quite work that way when you have a fixed volume and pressure from your pump. Still you want low restriction from the core and reduce the distance so your pump doesn't have to push the fluid as far.

It's a balance because too small a hose will cause pressure drop but so will too large and too long. For instance it would be better to cool the oil on the scavenge side of the pump vs the pressure side if you had a multi-stage dry sump. This way the pressure pump has the most direct path to feed the motor.

The main goal is to get the oil cool enough that we have cool oil viscosity.

[EAGLE5]

Wait, you running a dry sump yet?

[Calum]

Would keeping the main pump in place and working 'normally' with a second pump drawing from the pan, through a cooler and back to the pan, work? (You could also put a secondary filter in there if you felt so inclined.) That way the oil will be cooled, and you get the simplicity of the stock oil pump without the restriction of the oil cooler effecting the pressure to the engine.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Yeah but also your pump has to push more volume and a bigger core can mean more pressure drop. We are trying to do one bad thing in hopes a good thing comes out of it

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Doesn't quite work that way when you have a fixed volume and pressure from your pump. Still you want low restriction from the core and reduce the distance so your pump doesn't have to push the fluid as far.

It's a balance because too small a hose will cause pressure drop but so will too large and too long. For instance it would be better to cool the oil on the scavenge side of the pump vs the pressure side if you had a multi-stage dry sump. This way the pressure pump has the most direct path to feed the motor.

The main goal is to get the oil cool enough that we have cool oil viscosity.

From an energy standpoint, the oil circuit can be modelled as a simple closed electric circuit. Voltage drop is analagous to head loss. The collection of journal bearings is the part of the load that is closest to ground. Any device other than the pump itself can be considered a load just like a resistor.

Two rads in parallel, upstream of the bearings would result in half the resistance and therefore leave more of the voltage/pressure drop to the journals.

It really does work that way.

[Ultramaroon]

Your pump doesn't push any more volume, there's just more room in more radiator.

Now, 2 skinny radiators in series, the head losses might contribute significantly.

[cdrazic93]

Would the oil be thin enough at those temps to cause Laminar flow or Turbulent flow from the pump?

[Budo]

Originally Posted by D K

Ill write a post once its all done and dusted.

Its a dog box though.

Good. It's been awhile since you mentioned it and I thought it became something other than a foregone conclusion. I'm interested to see what you come up. Cheers.

[D K]

Originally Posted by Budo

Good. It's been awhile since you mentioned it and I thought it became something other than a foregone conclusion. I'm interested to see what you come up. Cheers.

This is what Ive come up wIth

[BRZGM3]

^^ What am I looking at! And how much?

[Darryljr11]

That looks lovely! I need details!!!

[Element Tuning]

Don't talk pricing here guys! Details, yes, prices, no. PM him. You can look up what a G-Force GF5-R costs and well add for custom adapter plate, shifter system, driveshaft, clutch disc, and maybe the transmission mount and you get the picture. I'm sure it's at least $12k less than a Hollinger base and will handle much more power.

This is a racing box also so 5th is 1 to 1 which means many will want a rear end change also. I think on my car I ran the calcs with G-Force and we were in the 165 mph range at 9k RPM in 5th.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by D K

This is what Ive come up wIth

You should just send this to me for testing

[D K]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

You should just send this to me for testing

Yea, and you should tell me what you do to your motors to help with oiling

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by D K

Yea, and you should tell me what you do to your motors to help with oiling

Sure I'll build your motor and you send me that transmission Even swap. I'm happy to buy your work as I don't need another R&D project. For the record $10k wouldn't begin to dent the R&D costs of what we have done to our motors and we will have to sell many, many, many more motors to break even.

I think an external kit will be the hot ticket for those with existing builds or those that want much more than 400 whp under racing conditions. I'm still concerned that even with the external oiling system our internal mods will still be needed at high power levels. We are just so stacked with engine builds (12 weeks) I'm the lone ranger on the external oil system and I'm just about at the "I don't have time for this anymore" stage.