Vortech vs. Speed By Design-Need advice

[raven1231]

Hey as the title says I am debating between either getting The Speed By Design kit or the Vortech Supercharger. Both will allow me to reach my goal which is to be around 300-350whp. I also have access to 93 and E85. Both kits also work with the OFT. Costs are similar as well.

Speed by design cost:
Kit $2999
tapped oil pan $150
Drift armor bar $150

total: $3299

Vortech cost:
New $3800
used for around $2700-$3000

Total:$2700-$3800

I would like to hear from owners of both of these kits and your experiences with them. Thanks in advance!

[Boofneenee]

I have the same mindset as you. Being an OFT owner it makes sense to utilize the free canned tunes. Also, in have a certain comfort level with the OFT vs ecutek. However , I know of a few tuners to trust that could due remote tuning with ecutek. Motomike from motoeast is really good. You could sell your OFt $450 but ecutek and stuff through him and get a free tune. I would feel comfortable remote tuning a sc. So, the innovative , Jackson and kraftsworks become an option.

As far as an answer to your question I wouldnt go vortech unless you got a killer deal. Remember, you need to have the exact specs (pulley size, oem belt) to make that tune work safe. Also, I just feel vortech is not as good as your other sc options. So that leaves you with SBD which seams to have a really good rap. Truthfully I have been driving myself crazy with the temptation to purchase one. For $3300 you can have new with tune and good to go.

I actually called shiv and asked him some questions directly about supporting mods necessary and he told me none if its dd and not tracked. No oil cooler no catch can Nada. For some reason tuners feel the need to buy every supporting cautionary mode possible and that is not always necessary.

I truly want plug play and forget. I don't think any fi solution offers that but part of me feels a sc would be easier than turbo. That is what I think keeps me from pulling the trigger on SBD. I sure wish off supported innovative kraftswerks and jackson

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

I have the same mindset as you. Being an OFT owner it makes sense to utilize the free canned tunes. Also, in have a certain comfort level with the OFT vs ecutek. However , I know of a few tuners to trust that could due remote tuning with ecutek. Motomike from motoeast is really good. You could sell your OFt $450 but ecutek and stuff through him and get a free tune. I would feel comfortable remote tuning a sc. So, the innovative , Jackson and kraftsworks become an option.

As far as an answer to your question I wouldnt go vortech unless you got a killer deal. Remember, you need to have the exact specs (pulley size, oem belt) to make that tune work safe. Also, I just feel vortech is not as good as your other sc options. So that leaves you with SBD which seams to have a really good rap. Truthfully I have been driving myself crazy with the temptation to purchase one. For $3300 you can have new with tune and good to go.

I actually called shiv and asked him some questions directly about supporting mods necessary and he told me none if its dd and not tracked. No oil cooler no catch can Nada. For some reason tuners feel the need to buy every supporting cautionary mode possible and that is not always necessary.

I truly want plug play and forget. I don't think any fi solution offers that but part of me feels a sc would be easier than turbo. That is what I think keeps me from pulling the trigger on SBD. I sure wish off supported innovative kraftswerks and jackson

Same here supercharger consists of less parts, and less that can go wrong. At the same time however I prefer turbos...

[ZOMFGAARON]

I've been debating between the two as well. Sub'd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PandaSPUR]

If going FI, I personally would want a custom tune just to make sure everything is running as it should.

Why skimp on a few hundred bucks to risk your entire engine :\

But as for SC vs Turbo, that's been debated a lot around here already. I think it really depends on how far you want to ultimately push your car.
I like turbos more, but also largely for nonsensical reasons lol (like the sound >_>).

[maxjedi]

5 reasons why turbos are better:
1. They are more efficient, because they use "free" exhaust gas energy.
2. They sound better, and also make your exhaust quieter.
3. They provide superior torque curve, because you already have full boost at 3500rpm.
4. They don't need replacing pulleys and belts to change target boost.
5. They don't require separate oiling system (with it's own oil cooler).

[Dream20b]

Without getting into subjectivity...


Reasons Superchargers are the better option
1. Less moving parts makes them more "reliable"
2. More Predictable for average Daily Drivers
3. Less time consuming to install (variable)
4. Some types can be designed to not leave you stranded if a belt breaks.
5. Less heat in the engine bay during hard driving


Reasons Superchargers are the lesser option
1. More maintainence.
2. Less torque at low RPMs due to being belt driven
3. Not Upgradable without changing at least one of pullies, belts, or supercharger units
4. No additional belts to break if using a turbocharger

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Dream20b

Without getting into subjectivity...


Reasons Superchargers are the better option
1. Less moving parts makes them more "reliable"
2. More Predictable for average Daily Drivers
3. Less time consuming to install (variable)
4. Some types can be designed to not leave you stranded if a belt breaks.
5. Less heat in the engine bay during hard driving


Reasons Superchargers are the lesser option
1. More maintainence.
2. Less torque at low RPMs due to being belt driven
3. Not Upgradable without changing at least one of pullies, belts, or supercharger units
4. No additional belts to break if using a turbocharger

I agree...I'm just stuck because the main things I love about the turbo are-power earlier on, easier to increase psi, sound great, less maintenance, and the supercharger-easier to install, more reliable, less chance for boost spike. I just can't decide...My power goals are achievable from both. Wish I could drive in both and compare them ha ha

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by maxjedi

5 reasons why turbos are better:
1. They are more efficient, because they use "free" exhaust gas energy.
2. They sound better, and also make your exhaust quieter.
3. They provide superior torque curve, because you already have full boost at 3500rpm.
4. They don't need replacing pulleys and belts to change target boost.
5. They don't require separate oiling system (with it's own oil cooler).

1. No they don't. They add resistance that the rods need to push harder to force the exhaust out. Due to this choke point your end up with a chance of ectra exhaust in the cylinder post stroke. (Unless overlap which isn't ideal) this increases cylinder pressure / temperature and decreases efficency. Have you ever blown through one of those little party toys that make sounds when you blow hard? Yeah that's not "free". Blowers aren't as inefficient as they used to be. A large turbo gives less back pressure and lower egt and can be easier on the engine but then your spool lacks. People confuse this logic with compressor maps and think larger turbos make more power due to cfm rate.
2. Very true when using a recirculated dump tube. Very wrong when open dump tube. Sbd is recirculated.
3. Incorrect. On a dyno plot this is true in most cases. But transient response time suffers greatly. And a large efficient turbo suffers even more. Not to mention some
Blowed make full boost at sub 2k rpm...
4. Mostly true unles using a wastegates setup. However wastegates setups reduce efficiency.
5. True. But units like the vortech don't require oil and coolant likes this are less likely points of failure.

My supporting reasoning for the above: I have had both a high horsepower vortech setup and I daily drive a forged setup with a maxed out gtx30r. Which did I like more? My vortech. I hate transient lag. Not to mention O have also tuned probably 100+ cars on this platform alone...

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

1. No they don't. They add resistance that the rods need to push harder to force the exhaust out. Due to this choke point your end up with a chance of ectra exhaust in the cylinder post stroke. (Unless overlap which isn't ideal) this increases cylinder pressure and decreases efficency. Have you ever blown through one of those little party toys that make sounds when you blow hard? Yeah that's not "free". Blowers aren't as inefficient as they used to be. A large turbo gives less back pressure and lower egt and can be easier on the engine but then your spool lacks. People confuse this logic with compressor maps and think larger turbos make more power due to cfm rate.
2. Very true when using a recirculated dump tube. Very wrong when open dump tube. Sbd is recirculated.
3. Incorrect. On a dyno plot this is true in most cases. But transient response time suffers greatly. And a large efficient turbo suffers even more. Not to mention some
Blowed make full boost at sub 2k rpm...
4. Mostly true unles using a wastegates setup. However wastegates setups reduce efficiency.
5. True. But units like the vortech don't require oil and coolant likes this are less likely points of failure.

My supporting reasoning for the above: I have had both a high horsepower vortech setup and I daily drive a forged setup with a maxed out gtx30r. Which did I like more? My vortech. I hate transient lag. Not to mention O have also tuned probably 100+ cars on this platform alone...

Thanks this is the input I was hoping for! Glad to hear from someone who had owned both a supercharger and turbo on this platform. Especially since the supercharger was the Vortech!

[xuimod]

I have the SBD kit. If I could do it over again, I would go the SC route.

With the SBD kit I'm having issues with an exhaust leak and some carbon monoxide leaks into the cabin as a result. Bought a carbon monoxide detector so I know what the exact levels are in the cabin. Have to run the car's ventilation on circulate most of the time as a result. And when cabin carbon monoxide levels get too high for my liking (say over 50 ppm) I open the windows while driving. I had to crack the windows open when it was raining today, that sort of sucked.

When I get around to it, I'm going to bring the car to a muffler shop to fix the exhaust leak. Also going to install an aftermarket catalytic converter because almost all turbo kits delete the stock catalytic converter. With no catalytic converter, your car puts out extremely dirty exhaust fumes. If your car is parked in a garage, that's not a good thing at all.

So that's more money out of my pocket to fix the exhaust leak and install an aftermarket catalytic converter.

In general, all turbo's run off exhaust so during the installation you change the car's whole exhaust setup. The exhaust coming out of your car's tailpipe (as a result of the catalytic converter delete) will be much dirtier and if fitment of the install turbo's exhaust pieces isn't exactly right, there's a fair chance you might end up with an exhaust leak (which result in harmful gases entering the cabin; especially if you don't run your car's ventilation on recirculate).

In contrast, with SC, you don't mess around with the exhaust so there's almost 0% chance of exhaust issues as a result of the SC. And iirc almost all SC kits maintain the OEM catalytic converter so the air coming out of the exhaust is much much cleaner compared to turbo kits.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by xuimod

I have the SBD kit. If I could do it over again, I would go the SC route.

With the SBD kit I'm having issues with an exhaust leak and some carbon monoxide leaks into the cabin as a result. Bought a carbon monoxide detector so I know what the exact levels are in the cabin. Have to run the car's ventilation on circulate most of the time as a result. And when cabin carbon monoxide levels get too high for my liking (say over 50 ppm) I open the windows while driving. I had to crack the windows open when it was raining today, that sort of sucked.

When I get around to it, I'm going to bring the car to a muffler shop to fix the exhaust leak. Also going to install an aftermarket catalytic converter because almost all turbo kits delete the stock catalytic converter. With no catalytic converter, your car puts out extremely dirty exhaust fumes. If your car is parked in a garage, that's not a good thing at all.

So that's more money out of my pocket to fix the exhaust leak and install an aftermarket catalytic converter.

In general, all turbo's run off exhaust so during the installation you change the car's whole exhaust setup. The exhaust coming out of your car's tailpipe (as a result of the catalytic converter delete) will be much dirtier and if fitment of the install turbo's exhaust pieces isn't exactly right, there's a fair chance you might end up with an exhaust leak (which result in harmful gases entering the cabin; especially if you don't run your car's ventilation on recirculate).

In contrast, with SC, you don't mess around with the exhaust so there's almost 0% chance of exhaust issues as a result of the SC. And iirc almost all SC kits maintain the OEM catalytic converter so the air coming out of the exhaust is much much cleaner compared to turbo kits.

Sorry to hear you guys haven't found a solution for the SBD exhaust leak issues . As for the no cats, I don't have any currently, which doesn't bother me. But having a leak would. Thanks for your input!

[Basket Case]

Originally Posted by xuimod

I have the SBD kit. If I could do it over again, I would go the SC route.

With the SBD kit I'm having issues with an exhaust leak and some carbon monoxide leaks into the cabin as a result. Bought a carbon monoxide detector so I know what the exact levels are in the cabin. Have to run the car's ventilation on circulate most of the time as a result. And when cabin carbon monoxide levels get too high for my liking (say over 50 ppm) I open the windows while driving. I had to crack the windows open when it was raining today, that sort of sucked.

When I get around to it, I'm going to bring the car to a muffler shop to fix the exhaust leak. Also going to install an aftermarket catalytic converter because almost all turbo kits delete the stock catalytic converter. With no catalytic converter, your car puts out extremely dirty exhaust fumes. If your car is parked in a garage, that's not a good thing at all.

So that's more money out of my pocket to fix the exhaust leak and install an aftermarket catalytic converter.

In general, all turbo's run off exhaust so during the installation you change the car's whole exhaust setup. The exhaust coming out of your car's tailpipe (as a result of the catalytic converter delete) will be much dirtier and if fitment of the install turbo's exhaust pieces isn't exactly right, there's a fair chance you might end up with an exhaust leak (which result in harmful gases entering the cabin; especially if you don't run your car's ventilation on recirculate).

In contrast, with SC, you don't mess around with the exhaust so there's almost 0% chance of exhaust issues as a result of the SC. And iirc almost all SC kits maintain the OEM catalytic converter so the air coming out of the exhaust is much much cleaner compared to turbo kits.

I'm willing to bet the exhaust leak issue isn't a big deal and a fairly easy fix. Sme times with exhaust componenets if you don't get everything lined up perfectly before torquing you might not get a proper seal. and FYI, any performance mods for a supercharger including a header would delete the cats...

[raven1231]

Here is a terrible comparison of the dynos, I threw together between the OFT 300 dyno and shiv's SBD dyno. Both are on the OFT maps (vortech 9 psi, SBD 10 psi) Obviously there are a ton of potential issues when comparing these but I thought it might be interesting either way. The black lines are the differences between torque and the red are gap between horsepower. HP values on the left start at 50 and go up to 300 in increments of 50.


Looks like the SBD kit has the upper hand until about 5.5-6k where they even out.