2015 WRX vs. FR-S/BRZ

[ayau]

Originally Posted by thill

What happened to this thread?

Evo are awesome cars, I really debated buying one but for me, there are only a couple of Mitsubishi dealers that are convenient and both are just terrible and I suspect won't be around much longer. They had like 20 Evo's sitting on the lot, I was one of two customers at the dealership, and I am 40+ years old and paying mostly in cash. They treated me like I was 19 and not a serious buyer... I mean the Evo is not exactly a supercar...

Anyway, I loved the Evo. But for a daily driver, I just was not feeling it as much as the 2015 WRX. Can't blame someone for picking either over the other, on the streets, there is probably little difference in terms of performance between an STI and Evo.

I would love to see Mitsubishi have an updated Evo, but the writing is on the wall for the company and the car. Ford RS is looking like it might be my next car.

Are you talking about Richfield Mitsubishi? I was there before I picked up my WRX. No test drives allowed unless you were buying one. I'm not a fan of the MPG for a car that's 90% used on the highway, which is why I went with the 2015 WRX.

[thill]

Originally Posted by ayau

Are you talking about Richfield Mitsubishi? I was there before I picked up my WRX. No test drives allowed unless you were buying one. I'm not a fan of the MPG for a car that's 90% used on the highway, which is why I went with the 2015 WRX.

Yep, Richfield. I also went to the Mitsubishi dealer in Brooklyn Park and was able to drive one, but that dealership was pretty frustrating to deal with too. I ended up buying a WRX down the street from them.

[ayau]

Back to the original topic.

After owning both the BRZ and the WRX, I've found straight line speed to be way more useful than cornering speed on a daily basis. I guess this is obvious. The BRZ definitely feels better in the corners, however, I dare someone to take a cloverleaf at 80mph in a BRZ with traction off. Most of us don't have the balls to do that. If you go to the track, I could see the BRZ as a better overall car, but that's like 1% of the population.

I think I'm starting to like power over cornering speeds for an everyday car. I think my next car will have to be 300hp+. Focus RS? Hmm..

[raven1231]

I like cheese!

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

But results usually come out BEFORE the release of the car. Why? Because they're conducted by the manufacturer and with a professional driver of their choice so they can make a splash and generate some buzz for the car's release, except when it's a manufacturer who doesn't rely on Ring times or at least know that their sales won't be affected by it -- i.e. Ferrari. But every time a new or refreshed GT-R, Corvette, 911 (any variant), etc. is on its way, you'll see its Ring time before you know what its MSRP is. Even the Evo IX's Ring time (on a damp track, mind you) and in-car footage was out months before its release.

So if we don't have any times for the 2015 STI, it's because they either weren't timing it or didn't generate noteworthy results in their opinion. Otherwise the video footage put out of Makinen driving it on the Ring would've included a time and not just a thumbs-up at the end.

The 2015 was seen being tested at the ring, and Subaru has admitted such, but I can't find any official times for it Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. I also thought it was a bit weird that they didn't give a time on that video. Eh, who knows, the only thing we somewhat know is the raw performance data from other testing mags that shows the 2015 to perform better than the last model.

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

This is true, but if you're talking about the 2008 models that they tested, the STI did win, but by 0.02 seconds... a super slim margin of victory, especially when all of their other lap times were only timed up to the tenths and not the hundredths. It's nearly a tie. To be honest, if it were the other way around and were the Evo that were 0.02 seconds quicker, I wouldn't even call that a win either. But even those results aren't great to gauge for our purposes, when their STI has a different motor (as mentioned before) and their Evo X is one of the FQ models that has some extra punch compared to ours.

Yeah, it's near enough to make no difference. The EVO is a dead model at this point and Mitsubishi is a terrible company to deal with for anything, so if I was buying new that would seal the deal for me. Used is a mixed bag.

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

But VIR has results that are obviously our stateside models. I'd like to see this year's results (as I don't doubt they'll bring a 2015 STI which should show a lot of improvement), but the way it stands, they've always done a lot better with Evos.

So it's ultimately personal preference.

Originally Posted by ayau

Back to the original topic.

After owning both the BRZ and the WRX, I've found straight line speed to be way more useful than cornering speed on a daily basis. I guess this is obvious. The BRZ definitely feels better in the corners, however, I dare someone to take a cloverleaf at 80mph in a BRZ with traction off. Most of us don't have the balls to do that. If you go to the track, I could see the BRZ as a better overall car, but that's like 1% of the population.

I think I'm starting to like power over cornering speeds for an everyday car. I think my next car will have to be 300hp+. Focus RS? Hmm..

Depends on what you're used to and where you live. Coming from Miatas, the BRZ is a more refined and faster car. Didn't like the ergos of the WRX at all (felt just like it is, a kitted up sedan), plus the BRZ looks better (IMHO).


I'll admit I like power, but I've always been a fan of feeling fast over being fast. Been in cars that will cruise at 100+ mph and it feels like you're doing 40 and it's ultimately boring...

[thill]

Originally Posted by ayau

Back to the original topic.

After owning both the BRZ and the WRX, I've found straight line speed to be way more useful than cornering speed on a daily basis. I guess this is obvious. The BRZ definitely feels better in the corners, however, I dare someone to take a cloverleaf at 80mph in a BRZ with traction off. Most of us don't have the balls to do that. If you go to the track, I could see the BRZ as a better overall car, but that's like 1% of the population.

I think I'm starting to like power over cornering speeds for an everyday car. I think my next car will have to be 300hp+. Focus RS? Hmm..

WRX has been a much better daily driver for me (especially with the amount of snow we get) than the BRZ. With snow tires on the car there is nowhere I have not been able to take it yet.

Focus RS is one to watch. The nice thing about the WRX is that these care hold their value better than just about any car on the road so even if you drive it 2-3 years you will lose very little when you sell it or trade it in.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by thill

WRX has been a much better daily driver for me (especially with the amount of snow we get) than the BRZ. With snow tires on the car there is nowhere I have not been able to take it yet.

Focus RS is one to watch. The nice thing about the WRX is that these care hold their value better than just about any car on the road so even if you drive it 2-3 years you will lose very little when you sell it or trade it in.

Let's hope that's true for the both of us. My WRX already had two trips to the dealership for faulty sensors. See here. http://mnsubaru.com/threads/2015-wrx...d-p0391.48513/

Really hope the RS doesn't isn't going to be 40k. I'll have a hard time justifying the price, and I'm not too sure about Ford's depreciation. Maybe the RS will be an exception?

[exE36M3]

This is what happens to people in cars with plenty of *straight-line* speed (and plenty of cornering speed) BUT don't know how to drive.

You DO NOT WANT to lull yourself into thinking you'll be happy with a car that only goes fast in a straight line. You'll get yourself killed that way.

Take any driving school - BMW CCA, Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc. For that $500-ish you'll find even *SLOW* cars driven to their potential will be faster than just mashing on the gas pedal.

Plus the education you get from improving your driving skill goes with you from car to car and doesn't depend on how much money you throw at the motor or car.

Caveat - I'm an old guy. Supercharged/Turbo'd Miatas, ex-M3 owner, now... BRZ... stock motor.

[thill]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

This is what happens to people in cars with plenty of *straight-line* speed (and plenty of cornering speed) BUT don't know how to drive.

You DO NOT WANT to lull yourself into thinking you'll be happy with a car that only goes fast in a straight line. You'll get yourself killed that way.

Take any driving school - BMW CCA, Skip Barber, Bondurant, etc. For that $500-ish you'll find even *SLOW* cars driven to their potential will be faster than just mashing on the gas pedal.

Plus the education you get from improving your driving skill goes with you from car to car and doesn't depend on how much money you throw at the motor or car.

Caveat - I'm an old guy. Supercharged/Turbo'd Miatas, ex-M3 owner, now... BRZ... stock motor.

That's pretty much true of any car. I have seen my fair share of wrecked FT86's around here because people don't know how to drive a RWD car around a corner....

But I do agree with you. Take some classes and understand what the limits of your car are and how to handle them..

To your point:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzlg3oQMze4"]Two Turkeys on Thanksgiving Wrecking their Corvettes in The Woodlands - YouTube[/ame]

[exE36M3]

Thill - no lie man. I was on the Bimmerforums.net for over 15 years... it's weird seeing people who joined up with you online... buy cars... upgrade... and die in car accidents... that they didn't have to die in.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by thill

That's pretty much true of any car. I have seen my fair share of wrecked FT86's around here because people don't know how to drive a RWD car around a corner....

But I do agree with you. Take some classes and understand what the limits of your car are and how to handle them..

To your point:

I saw that one before, but man, pitiful.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by thill

That's pretty much true of any car. I have seen my fair share of wrecked FT86's around here because people don't know how to drive a RWD car around a corner....

But I do agree with you. Take some classes and understand what the limits of your car are and how to handle them..

Everybody talks like RWD are some weird, exotic thing. You guys realize that your mothers, grandmothers and probably great grandmothers drove RWD exclusively right? There is no secret methods or special skills required to drive RWD.
Hell, I remember when FWD started to appear and nobody wanted to drive them because they were "deathtraps that don't corner well or handle properly". Now people talk like RWD is something new and you have to be a specially trained driver just to manage them.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Everybody talks like RWD are some weird, exotic thing. You guys realize that your mothers, grandmothers and probably great grandmothers drove RWD exclusively right? There is no secret methods or special skills required to drive RWD.
Hell, I remember when FWD started to appear and nobody wanted to drive them because they were "deathtraps that don't corner well or handle properly". Now people talk like RWD is something new and you have to be a specially trained driver just to manage them.

n00bs nowadays don't know how to handle oversteer

[srt4evah]

I love the driving characteristics of RWD, and I think I'll probably try to pick up a used FR-S in a year or two around $15k, but I already have a RWD car and I want something for all seasons, hence the WRX.

I really wish I could justify getting into another Evo X, but they're $10k more than a WRX, and they're still 8 year old interiors... loved my Evo X MR but any car that makes the new WRX interior look like a luxury car really won't do for a DD for me.

I wish I could get both an FR-S and a WRX right now, today, but I'll have to be patient for the FR-S.