the frs/brz is already plenty fast.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by perryair

now, if you are a regular at your local track or you spend a lot of time at the test and tune at your dragstrip this doesnt apply to you. and if you are a young carefree kid who doesn't have a career, wife or family yet i suppose this also doesn't apply to you.

but as an full fledged adult with adult things to do and family members to tend to and without time to oh, say, spend the day in jail on a reckless driving charge i can't possibly imagine how someone gets to the point where they think that the brz/frs is slow.

i've test driven both an FRS and BRZ and got to above legal speeds quite fast with both of them, thankyouverymuch. They feel just as fast/quick as my old 1995 mustang GT, which had 225 horsepower back then but probably carried an extra 500 lbs. (it also has just about the same quarter mile time and trap speed, as an aside) i managed to quickly get in front of traffic and do some things that probably were outside of the bounds of legal pretty easily.

in fact, id never call it fast but my current 100 and change horsepower honda civic has only made me feel uncomfortably slow in three merge into traffic situations over the span of five years of ownership.

so sure, a v6 camry has more horsepower! but try to use that extra horsepower in any meaningful way on a public road and odds are mister john q law will have something to say to you. not to mention that i doubt that more than a few percent of the driving populace has the driving skills necessary to even use half of the horsepower that any of their cars might have in the first place.

anyways, rant over..

It's easily faster than that Mustang you had. I used to blow the doors off those Mustangs with my MKIII Supra and the twins are a good second faster in the 1/4 than the Supra.

Originally Posted by Agent 86

I traded my 2013 Golf-R for the BRZ huge difference in power and torque, even the trade value was $2k more than my out the door price for my BRZ, but I bought the BRZ anyway.

As much as I loved the R, I love everything about the BRZ even more. I'm more than satisfied with my purchase.

I don't understand why so many are dissatisfied with the "lack of HP/Tq", yet bought a twin anyway???

BTW, I bought the BRZ over a new Audi S5.

Only thing I'm annoyed with is the torque dip, but I should have that handled soon.

Originally Posted by Eski

once you drive it for a little while you learn the feel of your rpms but i just cruise around somewhere between 3-5k and the throttle response is there. below 3k there is a major lack of power so just dont drive that low haha

What the hell man, you're racing the engine AND you're in the wrong part of the power band. Cruising RPM you want under 2K if you can get it (completely impossible on the highway), and if you want to really go, you want to be past the torque dip.

This only goes for a manual (though if you use the paddles on the auto you can pull it off to), but remember most people are driving crappy autos that don't downshift quick enough for fast overtaking. Downshift into the powerband and you'll be past most people before they can even react. Response, gearing, and the light weight make the car quite quick. If you don't get the jump though, that V6 Camry is going to make you look bad...

Originally Posted by STV3

We aren't arguing the fact that this car isn't a blast to drive at stock power levels. We also aren't saying it needs more power. OP said the car is fast and that is simply false.

I mean our cars are notorious for being slow lol

Only notorious for being slower than a V6 Mustang with shit build quality. If the Mustang didn't exist at the time this came out, people would be rightfully comparing it to a Miata like it was originally designed to take on.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by totopo

uhhhh, what GTR do you have? The PGC10?

R32. It's great in a straight line and on open sweeping roads, but on a tight togue it feels ponderous, heavy and wide.

[STV3]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

R32. It's great in a straight line and on open sweeping roads, but on a tight togue it feels ponderous, heavy and wide.

Ahhh OK I was confused by that statement too cuz over here in Murcia you say GTR and we think R35.

[BuzzR]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

It's probably because you are making a claim that is just plain not true. Your story simply doesn't add up. You are leaving something out. FRS, BRZ, and Mustang that's "not special" are in the same price range. It's common knowledge to all of us that have shopped around for sports cars.

You think I don't know that? You think I would say something like that here unless I was merely repeating what happened with me? I know many of you are far more knowledgeable with cars than I.

My BRZ was quoted to me at 25Gs, so I went and looked at a Mustang fastback (I owned a '65 many moons ago) just to see what they were going for. I was told by a salesman that it would go for "about 35."

It was a V8, but my original comment was: "Can it beat a six or eight cylinder Mustang (or whatever) in a straight line? Of course not - but then those cars are generally 10Gs+ more expensive."

So I'm only speaking from personal experience. Maybe it had a sauna in the trunk or something, I don't know. When I heard that price I didn't look at it too closely anymore, and the salesman didn't say it had anything special like supercharging, etc. I would think he would have, to try to impress me, if it had had it.

I looked at the examples on the link the other guy sent, and the lowest V8 I saw was about $32,300 (probably stripped.) So that alone is $7,300 more than what I paid for the BRZ. And maybe the one I looked at had more bells on it, I don't know. Once I heard the price I knew I wasn't going that high, so I left.

So that's it. Believe it or don't. But I don't think the nasty comments were warranted.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by STV3

Ahhh OK I was confused by that statement too cuz over here in Murcia you say GTR and we think R35.

Same thing with the R35. Try to step to a GTR, any GTR on the Ring with a BRZ; you would have to be high on crack. A tight mountain road, I'd be confident in the BRZ that I could make the R35 in the mirror disappear after a few corners.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Same thing with the R35. Try to step to a GTR, any GTR on the Ring with a BRZ; you would have to be high on crack. A tight mountain road, I'd be confident in the BRZ that I could make the R35 in the mirror disappear after a few corners.

lol

solo2:
FRS: CS
GT-R (09-11): SS
GT-R (12+): banned

[DohcTor]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Same thing with the R35. Try to step to a GTR, any GTR on the Ring with a BRZ; you would have to be high on crack. A tight mountain road, I'd be confident in the BRZ that I could make the R35 in the mirror disappear after a few corners.

Please tell me you're trolling... LOLOL

The r35 is like the 6th fastest car ever to go around the nurbergring (<--sp?)

LOLOL

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by BuzzR

You think I don't know that? You think I would say something like that here unless I was merely repeating what happened with me? I know many of you are far more knowledgeable with cars than I.

My BRZ was quoted to me at 25Gs, so I went and looked at a Mustang fastback (I owned a '65 many moons ago) just to see what they were going for. I was told by a salesman that it would go for "about 35."

It was a V8, but my original comment was: "Can it beat a six or eight cylinder Mustang (or whatever) in a straight line? Of course not - but then those cars are generally 10Gs+ more expensive."

So I'm only speaking from personal experience. Maybe it had a sauna in the trunk or something, I don't know. When I heard that price I didn't look at it too closely anymore, and the salesman didn't say it had anything special like supercharging, etc. I would think he would have, to try to impress me, if it had had it.

I looked at the examples on the link the other guy sent, and the lowest V8 I saw was about $32,300 (probably stripped.) So that alone is $7,300 more than what I paid for the BRZ. And maybe the one I looked at had more bells on it, I don't know. Once I heard the price I knew I wasn't going that high, so I left.

So that's it. Believe it or don't. But I don't think the nasty comments were warranted.

Sorry, didn't think we were being particularly nasty. No offense intended. There is such a broad range of prices between a base V6 and loaded GT, and same goes for base FRS and loaded BRZ, that you can't really make a valid comparison without being more specific. I mean I could tell you there's an 8k difference between the FRS and BRZ based on my shopping experience and not be lying about it. Generally, the 3 are very comparable in price, but you are right it is possible to find a 10k difference if you are looking at a GT.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by BuzzR

What part of, "... when I was pricing new cars last April the Mustang I looked at was 10Gs higher than the BRZ I ended up getting - and the Mustang wasn't anything special" do you not understand?

Perhaps I got a really good price on the BRZ, but that was the price difference for the car I looked at.

So why the hostility?

Because the V6 Mustang MSRP is under $24k, the new EcoBoost turbo is around $25k, almost a thousand dollars off the BRZ MSRP, the GT with the V8 is where you start to get away from the BRZ at $32k but that's only ~$5k more expensive, you only get to $10k (>$35k) on a Mustang if you're a bad negotiator, bad dealer, there's tons of unnecessary options, or they hacked the roof off.

The Mustang is absolutely a better performance/dollar value than the BRZ and I find it odd someone would argue otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Toyobaru is the better car and I wouldn't touch a Mustang with a ten foot pole but your statements seem to not represent what we agree upon as reality.



Edit: Read your post above, your statement makes more sense but you have to realize that even the V6 Mustang is faster around most tracks than the BRZ, yes even the twisty bits.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

And that's the old model that doesn't have independant rear suspension, the one I linked with the V6 should get around corners and lay down power even better.

[bababooey]

that link to the article looks like a good read while procrastinating working

[BuzzR]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

Sorry, didn't think we were being particularly nasty. No offense intended. There is such a broad range of prices between a base V6 and loaded GT, and same goes for base FRS and loaded BRZ, that you can't really make a valid comparison without being more specific. I mean I could tell you there's an 8k difference between the FRS and BRZ based on my shopping experience and not be lying about it. Generally, the 3 are very comparable in price, but you are right it is possible to find a 10k difference if you are looking at a GT.

Okay. Thanks.

Maybe I should have been more specific, but I was just talking in generalities about the maneuverability of the two cars and relating a personal experience.

I'm 65 and remember the first Mustang, and the idea of a 6-cylinder Mustang has always been anathema to me.

So no harm done, and I'll try to be more specific next time.

[BuzzR]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Because the V6 Mustang MSRP is under $24k, the new EcoBoost turbo is around $25k, almost a thousand dollars off the BRZ MSRP, the GT with the V8 is where you start to get away from the BRZ at $32k but that's only ~$5k more expensive, you only get to $10k (>$35k) on a Mustang if you're a bad negotiator, bad dealer, there's tons of unnecessary options, or they hacked the roof off.

I've never been much of a negotiator, that's true. Don't have the attitude for it. As I say, I got the BRZ reduced from (if I remember correctly) about 28 to 25K (it was a new 2013), and then checked on the Mustang and was told about 35. I knew I couldn't go that high, so I didn't look closely at the details and options on it. And, as I have mentioned previously, the idea of a V6 Mustang is abhorrent to me.

The Mustang is absolutely a better performance/dollar value than the BRZ and I find it odd someone would argue otherwise. Don't get me wrong, the Toyobaru is the better car and I wouldn't touch a Mustang with a ten foot pole but your statements seem to not represent what we agree upon as reality.

I totally agree regarding speed, but I thought the BRZ had the edge in maneuverability. I may be mistaken, but I've had some fun times on very winding roads at 80-90, so it's hard for me to imagine anything but a high dollar Vette or something like that that could outturn it.

Edit: Read your post above, your statement makes more sense but you have to realize that even the V6 Mustang is faster around most tracks than the BRZ, yes even the twisty bits.

Again, I wasn't arguing about the speed, but I thought the BRZ was more maneuverable.

Anyway, I'm happy with mine, as it's a very beautiful and well built car, gets great mileage and it's peppy enough for me.

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by BuzzR

I may be mistaken, but I've had some fun times on very winding roads at 80-90, so it's hard for me to imagine anything but a high dollar Vette or something like that that could outturn it.

Picturing a 65 year old cornering at 90 mph puts a smile on my face. Gives me hope that when I reach that age I can still have tons of fun, as opposed to being like the OP stick in the mud.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by DohcTor

Please tell me you're trolling... LOLOL

The r35 is like the 6th fastest car ever to go around the nurbergring (<--sp?)

LOLOL

Read the post again and see that I acknowledge that.

Ok, that's your lesson in reading comprehension. Next, critical thinking.

The Ring is a large track with a lot of room to move around and use all that power.
That big fat pig is not at home on a tight winding road. Example.

Look at it struggle to stretch its legs against a light car with less power.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqdcKBhe-4E"]TOUGE MAX R35 GTR vs RX-7 FD3S - YouTube[/ame]

The track is the track. The road is the road. Pick your battlefield. I drive like Sun Tzu.