Need Help getting power without Forced Induction

[350matt]

the only other route to power without making the engine bigger or going FI is to improve its breathing , reduce friction and get the revs up

NA tuning is expensive , mainly because increasing rpm means mechaincal changes , there's a good post on here about the issues of getting the revs up without it all goiing pop but the oil pump needs looking at, the valve springs are too light and the heads need work to get it all to breathe at 8000rpm +

[steve99]

Originally Posted by cslntuee

I saw the Amuse Powerhouse exhaust dyno result which can increase 30hp.
Is that real (true)?
How do you think?
Thanks.

@56 seconds

note the stock figures of 182 hp thats very high for stock car usually they are arround 170 wheel hp, so end result wil be inflated as well as the gain.
I would expect thats with a tune as well and complete exhaust upgrade
what fuel ?? japanese 100 octane ???

[stugray]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

Came across this simple article about rotating mass. It gives you idea how rotating mass effects crankshaft, drive shaft and wheels!

http://www.w8ji.com/rotating_mass_acceleration.htm

I wish I had found that link a year ago when I started trying to explain how attempting to reduce rotating mass by beginning with the pulley is a fools errand.
If the author suggests that reducing the weight of the driveshaft from 30 pounds to ZERO pounds results in a 1/4 hp gain, what do you think you get if you reduce a 4lb pulley to 1lb?
Save your $$ and take the weight off somewhere else first.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

Can anyone provide, or provide a link to, a list like this with an estimate of hp gains per mod, preferably with and without openflash tune.

Also, is there a thread anywhere that lists hp per dollar for these types of mods?

I'm kind of in the same boat as OP.. looking for the most bang for the buck, bolt on hp gains. I have OFT, and am leaning towards OFH for my next purchase. I've got K&N drop in, but aside from that and stage 1 tune, rest is cosmetic/protective.

Thanks

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

That's embarrassing.. I already knew about that thread, I just completely missed the hp gains. Thanks.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by cslntuee

What's your comment for this description?


clipped wall of text

It shows they honestly don't know what they're talking about, or understand the function of the damper. The simple fact that the S2000 DOES have a harmonic damper seals the deal...

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79308 Questions about LWCP and LWFW
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21676 Caused by flywheel

Still no engine failures due to a LWCP, N/A or boosted. Like I said, the charts and evidence of a LWCP is so minor, that its mostly for looks than performance, and getting rid of a brick for a pulley.

There is one on this forum that had an engine failure with only a LWCP... I can't find it right now though.

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

I probably would not run a LWCP boosted just because of the added stress and power, but that's a personal choice. I think there are still plenty of people both turbo and SC'd that have no issues running them.

More power = more powerful harmonics. It's common to go to a LARGER damper on Supras because of this...

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

You can even look at Grimmspeed's in depth research of why they made the pulley and straight up said, it's not THAT much of a performance increase or anything you will feel, but some of the data suggested there is still a benefit to using it. Granted the tests ran can always be improved further, but the cost of doing those also rises.

Lightweight Crank Pulleys are fine. The stock pulley is fine. Pick your Coke or Dr. Pepper.

They're also making a product for sale, "caveat emptor" comes to mind here. This doesn't mean they're "evil" or anything, but as with all aftermarket parts, they're not going to have the development capital the OEMs have.


There is a known risk in removing the damper, this make it not "fine."

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

Back on topic: A pulley isn't going to do much on power.

Header, OP/FP, Tune, E85 is the strongest combo for N/A hands down. Drop in filter on your intake if you want to save money, or go with a good cold air intake that has good MAF placement and air straighteners. (i.e. Grimmspeed, Skunk2)

Some light weight wheels also help.

Bingo. Also, it depends where you want the power. An excellent EL header will usually make more peak power while an UEL header will eliminate the torque dip.

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

Isn't this reversed? Changing the weight on the crank is what can cause the engine issues, not a driveshaft that is connected to the trans, or do I have this wrong?

You misunderstand me. Driveshaft critical speed is where the driveshaft fails. This is also an easy way to die...

[MikeM7]

This is coming from a novice, so please don't be too harsh if I'm way off, but this is what I've come up with...

My picks right now for power on a budget (compared to FI)

(With OFT Tune)
-Crawford Billet Power Blocks - $400 ~15hp http://openflashtablet.com/Automotiv...BPB/index.html

-Openflash Header - $695 ~10-15hp http://www.openflashtablet.com/Autom...OFH/index.html

-Grimspeed Intake - $375 ~5-10hp http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78902

I know combining mods can have both positive and negative impacts, so if someone could tell me a rough estimate of the total hp gain I'd appreciate it, and hopefully it's helpful to OP.

Also if you don't like these brands for whatever reason, why and what would you recommend?

Also, I didn't list E85 tune because I don't yet understand it or the negative side effects, but would consider it.

Feedback appreciated.

[cslntuee]

I found these two vender as below has the dyno result of LWP.


http://nonstoptuningusa.com/2014/10/...-dyno-testing/


http://www.ebay.com/itm/CIRCUIT-WERK...41f5a8&vxp=mtr

[steve99]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

This is coming from a novice, so please don't be too harsh if I'm way off, but this is what I've come up with...

My picks right now for power on a budget (compared to FI)

(With OFT Tune)
-Crawford Billet Power Blocks - $400 ~15hp http://openflashtablet.com/Automotiv...BPB/index.html

-Openflash Header - $695 ~10-15hp http://www.openflashtablet.com/Autom...OFH/index.html

-Grimspeed Intake - $375 ~5-10hp http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78902

I know combining mods can have both positive and negative impacts, so if someone could tell me a rough estimate of the total hp gain I'd appreciate it, and hopefully it's helpful to OP.

Also if you don't like these brands for whatever reason, why and what would you recommend?

Also, I didn't list E85 tune because I don't yet understand it or the negative side effects, but would consider it.

Feedback appreciated.

ok E85 info reading
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67310



you probably seen my other thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493


crawford block info skip to end of post comes to same conclusion as i did, great on stock car but add headers tune much diminished benifit add e85 less benifit again.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62007



Personally i would go E85 ,catless header and E85 tune and maybe dropin filter that will get you about 85-90% of whats possible NA without spending a ship load of cash.

If you go the OFT and their header both are pretty easily on sellable so not much lost if you change your mind and will let you try e85 and petrol tunes on stock or modded car.

If you pretty satisfiied then do other stuff but theirs no big gains.

If you want more go FI or sell the car

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by steve99

ok E85 info reading
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67310



you probably seen my other thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493


crawford block info skip to end of post comes to same conclusion as i did, great on stock car but add headers tune much diminished benifit add e85 less benifit again.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62007



Personally i would go E85 ,catless header and E85 tune and maybe dropin filter that will get you about 85-90% of whats possible NA without spending a ship load of cash.

If you go the OFT and their header both are pretty easily on sellable so not much lost if you change your mind and will let you try e85 and petrol tunes on stock or modded car.

If you pretty satisfiied then do other stuff but theirs no big gains.

If you want more go FI or sell the car

Thanks for the links and info.

I was kind of under the impression catless was illegal/won't pass emissions. I don't want to take unnecessary risks.

I currently have K&N drop in and OFT running the stage 1 tune that it came with. I actually just found power blocks for 100 off, new, and agreed to purchase. Hopefully I don't regret the decision, but at 25% off I had to jump on the deal. I can always resell if need be.

Ideally, I'd like to have a 250hp BRZ, but I realize that's going to get real expensive real quick, with gains diminishing with each mod. I would be perfectly content with 230. I just don't want to drop 6k on a Turbo or Supercharger for a daily driver.

If I found that I was unable to add a single hp to my BRZ, I still wouldn't even think about selling it. I love this car, and I made the decision knowing full well I was making a 100+hp sacrifice (compared to American muscle cars in the price range). Make no mistake, I am thrilled to have this car, I'm not complaining. That said, if I can get a little more power out of it, that'd be great

[steve99]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

Thanks for the links and info.

I was kind of under the impression catless was illegal/won't pass emissions. I don't want to take unnecessary risks.

I currently have K&N drop in and OFT running the stage 1 tune that it came with. I actually just found power blocks for 100 off, new, and agreed to purchase. Hopefully I don't regret the decision, but at 25% off I had to jump on the deal. I can always resell if need be.

Ideally, I'd like to have a 250hp BRZ, but I realize that's going to get real expensive real quick, with gains diminishing with each mod. I would be perfectly content with 230. I just don't want to drop 6k on a Turbo or Supercharger for a daily driver.

If I found that I was unable to add a single hp to my BRZ, I still wouldn't even think about selling it. I love this car, and I made the decision knowing full well I was making a 100+hp sacrifice (compared to American muscle cars in the price range). Make no mistake, I am thrilled to have this car, I'm not complaining. That said, if I can get a little more power out of it, that'd be great

I'm not across all the emissions laws in usa states. But their are two cats in brz/86 exhaust one in header and one in front pipe, in some states you may pass with just the one cat in front pipe and be able to run catless header, not sure. hopefully some usa guys in your state can chime in on that.

[diBreezy]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

Thanks for the links and info.



Ideally, I'd like to have a 250hp BRZ, but I realize that's going to get real expensive real quick, with gains diminishing with each mod. I would be perfectly content with 230. I just don't want to drop 6k on a Turbo or Supercharger for a daily driver.

I have actually very similar goals to you. In order to reach 250whp I did the math and this is what I came up with.

cold air
uel headers
op
catted front
catback exhaust

wheels, tires, breaks, clutch, flywheel and ditch weight

I don't want to get into an argument with the engineers in this thread, but...

So if you drop about 200 lbs, run OFT with e85 tune and everything else I mentioned your clone is going to get pretty damn near 250whp

HOWEVER, it is going to cost you six grand to get there. (- labor)

This is basically my route, plus a good set of brakes. The goal eventually is a SC, possibly electric, but I want to take this route first for a couple reasons, mostly revolved around me learning how cars work. That is why everything behind the header is going to be 3". The total price I mention in this post is for 2.5" pipes. When you upgrade to FI the header and the cold air intake (CAI) have to go, but everything else can stay, so might as well plan ahead, even if it is a couple years down the road.


Oh I almsot forgot. everything from cold air to catback + OFT will cost you just under $3k for the parts. Labor is another story tho... Anyway, those parts and an e85 tune should get you to your "acceptable" 230whp. Just for reference, the bone stock FRS runs approximately 161whp so that's roughly a 40% increase in whp. I hope that is still "acceptable" for you.

[MikeM7]

Originally Posted by diBreezy

I have actually very similar goals to you. In order to reach 250whp I did the math and this is what I came up with.

cold air
uel headers
op
catted front
catback exhaust

Why no power blocks? Just curious.. I just ordered mine for 300, couldn't pass it up with the supposed hp gains I've read about. I just hope they don't cause additional wear or other risks, I didn't have time to research properly, the deal was there so I jumped on it.

I'm not willing to dump 6k into performance parts.. might as well get a supercharger.. so I'll probably settle for the 220-230 range.

[diBreezy]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

Why no power blocks? Just curious.. I just ordered mine for 300, couldn't pass it up with the supposed hp gains I've read about. I just hope they don't cause additional wear or other risks, I didn't have time to research properly, the deal was there so I jumped on it.

I'm not willing to dump 6k into performance parts.. might as well get a supercharger.. so I'll probably settle for the 220-230 range.

My understanding is they don't play well with e85. If you are running 91 or 93 exclusively, then you should get them.

With the OFT it is EXTREMELY simple to change between 91/3 and e85.
1) Run your car down to >1 gallon of gas
2) Fill car with e85
3) Flash e85 tune
4) Enjoy!

So if the conversion was any type of concern for you don't let it be.