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Old 06-04-2014, 07:24 AM   #1
steve99
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How to run E85 on stock 86 BRZ FRS with OFT tune

How too - Running E85 on stock 86/BRZ with OFT (also cars with headers)


You can run E85 on a stock 86/BRZ with an OFT tune

No Flex fuel kit or sensor required.

Post by Shiv at Vishnu tuning

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53477


Stage 2 E85 map tested on stock car

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52030

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56452


OFT Stage 2 maps are usually reserved for cars with aftermarket catless headers however as per above posts they will work on a stock car running E85 fuel.


E85 has a higher Octane rating then petrol which allows tune to run more ignition advance providing more power and torque over the entire rpm range


Unfortunately E85 has less energy content for the same volume of petrol so you have to run about 25% more E85 generate the same energy as petrol, hence your fuel economy will be around 25% worse on E85. No free lunches as they say.

Video with general info on E85

All about E85. Video: MCM
https://youtu.be/ltWcgiCm4NY




Info on Charge Cooling effect of E85 effectively giving you higher octane rating
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=13

On OFT tunes the in dash fuel economy meter will read 25% off on E85,to correct this adjust the Fuel_Multiplier_Display_Offset Table as per below (original values with 30% added)

Note in your Definition the "Fuel Multiplier Display Offset" Table may be under the "BRZ ALPHA" folder




Precautions

As you have no flex fuel sensor you need take a couple of precautions when changing from petrol to E85 or the other way around.



  • Run tank down till low fuel light comes on
  • Fill with E85
  • Plug in OFT to monitor fuel trims (leave petrol tune in at present)
  • Drive slowly below 3500 rpm no WOT or hard acceleration until you see STFT rise rapidly followed by LTFT and stay high, this indicates that the petrol is now out of lines and the E85 has made it through the lines and pumps, this generally takes 2 or 3 km
  • Pull over and turn off car Flash E85 tune with OFT (Stage 2 EL E85) for stock car or car with EL headers or Stage 2 UEL E85 if you have UEL headers.
  • Start car and drive slowly again below 3500 no hard acceleration for next 10 to 20 km until your fuel trims LTFT/STFT stabilise below about 10% while cruising and idle, this allows ECU to learn the E% of your E85 mix.
  • Then do two or three light steady throttle (about 10-20%) runs in second or third gear 2000 rpm to 6000rpm (just let the rpm's build slowly), none of this is 100% necessary it just helps ECU learn quicker
  • If you do flash the E85 map at the pump on switchover the learning process will take longer as the E85 tune will try to learn petrol then when the E85 gets into the system it will need to learn E85.
Reverse procedure to go back to Petrol.


Guy did video of proceedure see link




There are two reasons you need to drive easy

1. To let the ECU learn the new fuel and avoid any damage while its doing so
2. Your ECU only learns fuel trims in Closed Loop mode , this is during cruise and steady or slow throttle movement. During WOT hard acceleration and on/off throttle ECU is in Open Loop mode it does not learn fuel trims just applies what it learns in Closed Loop mode see here for more info http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64790


Shiv says the E85 tune is good for mix’s between E60 and E90, but it does take time to learn a new mix , so each time you fuel up take it easy for the first 10km or so to let it learn again.


Your LTFT will vary around a bit more on E85 tune if the ethanol percent of your fuel changes.
If the E% is around 70% then the LTFT will be fairly low possibly less than 5%.
IF you E% is less than 70% your LTFT will start to trend negative
If you E% is above 70% then your LTFT will trend positive


As long as their less than about 10% +or- your fine.
you will always notice LTFT drift around a bit more at idle and low rpm due large changes in Intake air temps this is normal.


Apparently some stations in USA are now stocking E50 fuel, this will be pushing the limits on the OFT tune, your likely to see LTFT of 10% and you would want to log for knock if using that fuel, you might have to back off the ignition timing a degree or so in places if your seeing consistent knock.


This assumes your running a stock intake, or have rescaled your maf sensor to suit an aftermarket intake


Remember you have NO flex fuel sensor to save you so you need to be careful not to fuel up with wrong fuel and probably advisable to keep OFT with you in case you cannot get E85 in some areas.


If it rearly cold you may experience cold start problems (generally below 5C or 40F) if so you can add 3 or 4 litres of petrol to a full tank to drop the E% a bit to make starting easier but keep you E% over about E60.

or see link below and surrounding posts to alter Injector pulse widths on start-up (cranking) ie Cranking IPW tables

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...21#post1444921

or Malts adjustments

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40

The best is probably wayno's adjustments below especially for high ethanol content up to E90






If you are going to run E85 long term you should make sure your oil is E85 compatible (SN or GF-5 rated oils are generally Bio-fuel E85 compatible), and change your oil twice as often if your paranoid. If you get oil analysis done and your not showing fuel dilution you may be able to run standard oil change intervals, im just being safe here.

see here http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm

You may consider running something similar to Lucas Ethanol Treatment.


Some people on this forum such as Hawiian, Luckrider and 86Viper and possibly others, have used E85 for over 30,000 km on cars with stock fuel system components.


Plenty of OFT users with less km on E85


There is no 100 percent guarantee their will be no long term side effects but its looking quite promising.

see these threads with replies from long term users

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64621

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51252

Last edited by steve99; 07-26-2018 at 06:14 PM. Reason: cold start info , long term use info
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:52 AM   #2
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Did this last night, but I made the mistake of immediately flashing over to e85 el (stock headers) and driving off. Have been taking it easy (under 4krpms) for 40miles. Hope that didn't do any harm. Didn't know I should have stayed on the petrol tune.. Should I be worried? @steve99
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #3
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Did this last night, but I made the mistake of immediately flashing over to e85 el (stock headers) and driving off. Have been taking it easy (under 4krpms) for 40miles. Hope that didn't do any harm. Didn't know I should have stayed on the petrol tune.. Should I be worried? @steve99
I'm confused. From your last post I got the impression that you were running 91 octane gas. Now it seems like you are saying you were running e85 but flashed to the e85 map to soon. What fuel did you fill up with?
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:17 AM   #4
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Great Instruction! thanks but i dont know i am gonna try E85 later. lol
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #5
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So I'm guessing the Toyota 0w-20 synthetic is not "E85 friendly"?
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:20 PM   #6
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I'm confused. From your last post I got the impression that you were running 91 octane gas. Now it seems like you are saying you were running e85 but flashed to the e85 map to soon. What fuel did you fill up with?
Sorry for the confusion. Was on stage 1 91 tune. Last night flashed to stage 2 el e85 and pumped e85. Instead of pumping and remaining on stage 1 tune for a few km (burn off remaining 91), I pumped and immediately flashed to stage 2 e85. Since then I have kept it under 4krpms while driving (50miles now).
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:24 PM   #7
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Sorry for the confusion. Was on stage 1 91 tune. Last night flashed to stage 2 el e85. Instead of pumping and remaining on stage 1 tune for a few km, I pumped and immediately flashed to stage 2 e85. Since then I have kept it under 4krpms while driving (50miles now).
So you pumped e85 into your tank and kept it under 4k until your trims stabilized? If so then you are fine

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Old 06-04-2014, 12:28 PM   #8
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That's what my thought process concluded, lol it's that "online random person who drives the same car as me secondary confirmation" that makes me feel comfortable before going WOT crazy. @Malt
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:47 PM   #9
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That's what my thought process concluded, lol it's that "online random person who drives the same car as me secondary confirmation" that makes me feel comfortable before going WOT crazy. @Malt
Just make sure your LTFT's are within reason before going Wot and you'll be fine.

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Old 06-04-2014, 12:54 PM   #10
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BRILLIANT!

You mean to tell me I can use e85 on a stock twin with an e85 tune?! NO WAY!!!!
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:03 PM   #11
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Just make sure your LTFT's are within reason before going Wot and you'll be fine.

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This is probably beating a dead horse, but what are normal (LFT's & AFR) at idle, cruise & WOT?
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:56 PM   #12
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This is probably beating a dead horse, but what are normal (LFT's & AFR) at idle, cruise & WOT?
+1 this question

also

Quote:
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So I'm guessing the Toyota 0w-20 synthetic is not "E85 friendly"?
no the toyota 0w-20 might not run well with e85. I'm still trying to figure that out and what oil will if it doesn't

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66639
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:28 PM   #13
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Did this last night, but I made the mistake of immediately flashing over to e85 el (stock headers) and driving off. Have been taking it easy (under 4krpms) for 40miles. Hope that didn't do any harm. Didn't know I should have stayed on the petrol tune.. Should I be worried? @steve99
As long as you drive easy below about 3500 4000 during the learning process you should be fine. If you flash the e85 tune at pump on changeover the learning process will be twice as long as the E85 tune will learn petrol due petrol in lines then will have to relearn as the E85 flows through. The e85 tunes run higher timing advance so you will get knock if you drive hard when it running petrol for a short period so its prefereble to do it as per original post. As long as you did not go banzi straight away you will be fine. I have done it that way before
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:31 PM   #14
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So I'm guessing the Toyota 0w-20 synthetic is not "E85 friendly"?
I am not sure as i dont know what they use i just changed to one that i know is e85 compatable, it would probably be ok for one tank if you just wanted to try E85
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