Choppy shifting

[spicyricecake]

Originally Posted by rburrow87

One thing that I found helped me a lot was to not let up on the gas completely when shifting up. I notice if you let up off the gas completely, even if you're just cruising around and shifting casually, it takes longer to rev back up than in any other position, which causes the jerking if you're trying to shift at a "normal" (keep with traffic) pace. When you let off the gas between gears, only let up enough so that when you go into the next gear, you are basically maintaining speed. It's not really rev matching the up-shift, more like throttle matching... or something.

Ever since I started doing this (couple months ago?) and developed a feel for how much to let off and when to apply gas again, my up-shifting has gotten massively smoother and more consistent. Still jerks lightly once in a while, but nothing like I used to. Could just be coincidence and I just finally got a better feel for the car, not 100% sure.

I don't see any harm in doing it that way, but I'm also still probably more of a noob when it comes to manuals so someone feel free to say it's idiotic or explain it better.

^ I do this quite a bit now, and I feel the same that it makes the shifts much smoother... not sure if this would hurt the clutch though since you're still giving a bit of rev while you're shifting

can anyone confirm or deny?

[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by MikeM7

I actually agree that it is not directly the cars fault, but to tell someone that's been driving stick for 10 years "lol L2manual!" is not very helpful.

You'd be surprised how many motorcycle riders have no idea how countersteering works or are even consciously aware that they're doing it. Doing it wrong is incredibly common across all skills.

Originally Posted by MikeM7

I think my issues are the result of a combination of things...

-Owned the car 2 weeks
-Keep changing seat position (closer/farther from clutch)
-Just tuned with OFT
-Cold start in the morning (this is when i get worst 1st gear jerks/rocks)
-Inconsistent driving (drove it hard whole first week, then hours of highway, then regular commuting)

Basically, I'm causing constant inconsistencies so I can never quite nail it down.

Which, in the end, yes it all amounts to user error as opposed to mechanical issues, however there are better ways to have this discussion than a dismissive "learn to drive bro".

I mean I thought it was a given that we aren't talking about mechanical defects, I was just looking for tips and pointers from seasoned brz owners for how best to drive this specific car.

Honestly, the clutch feel is meh at best and the DBW throttle takes a long time to register when you've lifted off. You probably just need to get used to these, I know it took me a while and I still have to be conscious of it on occasion. Set your seat with your knees slightly bent at full clutch extension and set the steering wheel where you have a slight bend in your elbow while resting your wrists on the top of it. Steering wheel height should be sufficiently high to comfortably work the whole wheel without risking never being able to have children.

[qitorr]

I've been driving manual for almost 20 years and yes there is a learning curve with each new car; don't feel bad about it or let others give you a hard time. That being said there are always things that you/I can do better. Been covered above pretty well. There is also a difference in not getting smooth movement during shifts and the gearbox being more difficult going into gears, especially at low temps. The former is easier to change by checking you driving habits and the latter may require fluid changes, etc.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is adjusting the clutch height to be just a tad lower than the break petal. Takes about 10 min to do and is covered in the DIY section. I really enjoyed the difference this made.

[johhnc479]

The 1-2 shift is my biggest complaint with this car. Other shifts are generally okay, but not as good as most of the other cars I've owned.

[donoman]

Did the problem just surface or has it always been that way?

WHEN I TEST DROVE THE CAR IT WAS FINE

[Alltezza]

May not be you at all, I'm sure you've seen a lot of people in this forum say something about changing the manual transmission fluid and the rear diff fluid.

A lot of people along with myself would recommend Motul Gear 300 75W90 for the Tranny and Rear Diff.

Give your car another month or a couple weeks and then change your fluids and let us know how it is.

Edit: I just saw that you said that you had your car since June so I'm sure that car is already broken in. I'd say change your fluids.

[MikeM7]

I appear to have solved my issue by adjusting my seating position and allowing the car a few minutes to warm up. I had already found the sweet spot, but I don't like having to stretch/extend my foot to push the clutch all the way to the floor, so I kept trying to move closer which throws off my rhythm/distance.

I seem to go through this battle with every manual, and I always end up conceding defeat and accepting that I'm just not going to be able to put clutch to floor flat footed, have to use "tippy toes". I guess I just have to accept that I've got some short ass legs.

I do plan on swapping out fluids for motul 300 at some point, but it'll have to wait because the wife is getting really annoyed at my "just one more thing" mentality for car extras...

[chaoskaze]

From my experience you just need to shift without hesitation and it's better to roll the gear in instead of pushing it. I also noticed that if I sit really upright in my seating position.......It shift better..........>__>.

^also one more thing to be improve = our FRS/BRZ journey =p

[donoman]

As you discovered, you should push the clutch in all the way to the floor to guarantee disengagement without having to think about it. By not going all the way to the floor, you're "floating" that clutch foot and never have the same engage reference point.

[EAGLE5]

It's a hard car to shift smoothly, but it can be done. Poor clutch feel for sure. Not that bad, though. You just have to pay attention!

[Eski]

honestly imo different shoes provide for different ride smoothness. nikes or tighter fitting smaller width shoes make for easy shifts where as skateboard shoes like vans or dvs (whatever your preference) make shifting rough sometimes and hard to feel the clutch release. but as always practice and wear make easier shifting.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by donoman

As you discovered, you should push the clutch in all the way to the floor to guarantee disengagement without having to think about it. By not going all the way to the floor, you're "floating" that clutch foot and never have the same engage reference point.

I disagree - I think that if you want the shifts to be smooth (so I'm assuming you're not trying to beat any lap times here), I think it's very important to know exactly where the clutch engagement point is, and to commit it to muscle memory.

Once you have that, shifts can become very smooth (passengers have remarked that they didn't know I was driving manual at all).
And yes, as others have noted - not letting off the gas completely seems to help with smoothness - experiment!
I don't think it should cause too much clutch wear, since I'm assuming you're shifting at reasonable RPMs for moderate/easy driving (i.e. I shift at 2k-3k), so it shouldn't cause ridiculous slip...

[donoman]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

I disagree - I think that if you want the shifts to be smooth (so I'm assuming you're not trying to beat any lap times here), I think it's very important to know exactly where the clutch engagement point is, and to commit it to muscle memory.

Once you have that, shifts can become very smooth (passengers have remarked that they didn't know I was driving manual at all).
And yes, as others have noted - not letting off the gas completely seems to help with smoothness - experiment!
I don't think it should cause too much clutch wear, since I'm assuming you're shifting at reasonable RPMs for moderate/easy driving (i.e. I shift at 2k-3k), so it shouldn't cause ridiculous slip...

You can shift the car without a clutch by not letting off the gas all the way, too. It's not the right way to do it.

The original poster is talking about "choppy shifting." I actually don't know what that means. THere are two problems here, they are caused by different things:

1) Rough engagement upon clutch uptake
2) Notchy shifting in the gear box upon moving the stick

I have a feeling most people here are talking about the shifter, and most people are not fully disengaging the clutch. That can definitely cause the problem because gear is still loaded and not wanting to let go. Even the most expensive Porsche or BMW will drive like shit if you have an untrained left foot.

The good news is that it's all technique. "Manhandling" the stick a last resort.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by donoman

You can shift the car without a clutch by not letting off the gas all the way, too. It's not the right way to do it.

The original poster is talking about "choppy shifting." I actually don't know what that means. THere are two problems here, they are caused by different things:

1) Rough engagement upon clutch uptake
2) Notchy shifting in the gear box upon moving the stick

I have a feeling most people here are talking about the shifter, and most people are not fully disengaging the clutch. That can definitely cause the problem because gear is still loaded and not wanting to let go. Even the most expensive Porsche or BMW will drive like shit if you have an untrained left foot.

The good news is that it's all technique. "Manhandling" the stick a last resort.

The shifter should glide with minimal effort if the revs are in the right range, and your clutch is just outside engagement point - this doesn't necessitate flooring the clutch. But you are absolutely correct that you still have to declutch for the easiest smooth shifting.